Quote:

---

Re: Ad support [Re: Itchy]
#36666 - 10/05/07 10:49 AM

Ads are definitely coming. Let me outline where things stand on Ads now:

1. Build 93 has the in-game Ad implementation completed. It is only accessible by testers at this point. We need to get feedback from Double Fusion (our ad provider) about the implementation before unleashing it on you.

2. Only FREE players will see ads.

3. The most prevalent advertisement will be an always-visible banner at the top of the screen. It's not too invasive, but you will notice it. Here's a screenshot of this in action...

4. We also show a 15 second movie ad on login and logout for FREE players only.

5. There is a chance to see a larger static ad when changing zones. This chance is based on the total play time on your character. I believe it tops out at 20%.

6. There is a chance to see a 15 second ad movie when respawning after death. This chance is based on the total play time on your character. I believe it tops out at 20%.

Once ads are implemented, free players will have access to more features. Here's the current plan:

1. 100% of Yellow items that drop will be usable by free players.

2. Free players will receive one bank page. Members will be given two additional bank pages.

3. 25% of Purple items that drop will be usable by free players. This percentage will be adjusted through testing...

4. 25% of Rainbow items that drop will be usable by free players. This percentage will be adjusted through testing...

5. Minor potions will become stackable to 5. Major potions will be remain members-only and will stack to 10.

That about covers the ad goodness. I expect it will be ready for release to you sometime in November. I'll post again as it gets closer...

steve

---

Quote:

---

The Software incorporates technology of Massive Incorporated ("Massive") that enables in-game advertising, and the display of other similar in-game objects, which are uploaded temporarily to your personal computer or game console and replaced during online game play. As part of this process, Massive may collect your Internet protocol address and other basic anonymous information, and will use this information for the general purposes of transmitting and measuring in-game advertising. Massive does not store or use any of this information for the purpose of discovering your personal identity. For additional details regarding Massive’s in-game advertising practices, and to understand your options with respect to in-game advertising and data collection, please see Massive's privacy policy. The trademarks and copyrighted material contained in all in-game advertising are the property of the respective owners. Portions of this product are © 2007 Massive Incorporated. All rights reserved.

Consent to Use of Data. You agree that EA, its affiliates, and each Related Party may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer, including without limitation your Internet Protocol address, operating system, application software and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online play. EA and/or the Related Parties may also use this information in the aggregate and, in a form which does not personally identify you, to improve our products and services and we may share that aggregate data with our third party service providers.

---

Quote:

---

EULA Explanation
We just made some big announcements about Hellgate: London, and it’s been great to see all of the excited comments regarding what we have in store for our players on day one and onward. On the flip side, we’ve also heard grumblings about the EULA that went out with our DX9 single-player demo.


We want to make something very clear. We are in no way scanning your computers for your personal information or taking any personal information without your knowledge. The only time that Flagship or Ping0 would collect your personally identifiable information is when you actually decide to give it to us. Examples are when you create an account for Hellgate: London online or when you provide us your personal information when you enter a contest. The language in the portion of the EULA that has been cited is actually fairly standardized language that is used in the vast majority of EULAs for recent on-line software. It was unfortunately also somewhat broad in scope and potentially ambiguous in nature in an attempt to keep the legalese at a minimum.


This catch-all statement was included so that we have the ability to determine if someone is using hacks, unauthorized mods or other abusive applications while playing the game which spoils the gameplay for everyone else. We also use this catch-all to protect other parties offering technical support, such as our online provider, Ping0. This is a completely legitimate function and other leaders in the MMO space do it in an effort to stop hackers and provide better technical support. In order to stop hacks and cheats, as well as attempts at outright fraud, we may need the ability to scan our player’s computers for applications running at the same time as our game. This paragraph was designed to be able to allow for such functionality. It is also important to point out that EA does not determine what we do in regards to online and offline for our game security.


Also, this has nothing specifically to do with advertisements. EA has nothing do with Massive or potential ad-serving in Hellgate: London. First and foremost, any in-game advertising that would be in Hellgate: London is there to simulate how London looks in the real-world. Ads that represent this have been in the entirety of the beta, and in fact, have been shown in the game for well over a year. The fact is that we did not agree to potentially have ads in the game just to make more money. If we did not work with Massive, we would have to get individual approvals from every single company that we want to feature in the Underground stations. This is simply too time consuming and it’s much better to have the experts to do it, allowing us time to focus on making Hellgate: London better and better while getting a realistic portrayal of London in the process.


Should we elect to serve ads, they must be approved by us, Flagship Studios. We would demand that they be in-context with the game world - aged, weathered, only shown in appropriate areas, just as the static posters you see in the Stations are now. We have no interest in putting giant, bright-white billboard in the middle of your battles or having you wield swords of Brand X Cola.


Finally, Hellgate: London and all of the online play and components are controlled by Flagship Studios and Ping0. We’re all gamers here, and we’re as sensitive to protecting our personal information as you are. This is why we have spent the past six months becoming a member of the ESRB Privacy Online certification program. This means that we’re meeting the most rigorous standards in the industry for protecting your privacy and the information that you provide us.


We hope this helps address the concerns of our community.


See you online!
Posted by: Kaiser on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 21:45 Talk About This Story!
Filed under: Demo, EULA

---

Quote:

---

Greetings. My name is Max Schaefer, and I'm C.O.O. of Flagship Studios. Wow, this has spun way out of control! With any luck, I can hopefully clarify some things.

On the topic of the Consent to Use of Data, people are reading much more into this than there is. We gather data specifically to address technical support problems, to deliver patches, and to prevent cheating. This is something most every internet game does, and for good reason. We don't have nefarious goals with this, but need the ability to do these things to provide good customer support and create a secure playing environment that's as cheat-free as possible. Flagship Studios is a relatively small operation, and our focus is 100% on making Hellgate: London (and Mythos) as good as they can be. We're somewhat puzzled as to why our EULA, as opposed to all the others that have the same language, is singled out, and are distressed at the confusion it has caused. Maybe EA's legal wording isn't optimal (it's legalese, after all), but it's grounded in rational and necessary concepts that anyone running an online game needs to adhere to.

On the subject of the in-game advertising, poor Kaiser has been misinterpreted more often than I could identify. We chose to have Massive stream ads into our game for two main reasons: It lets us have realistic ads that we approve and which are context-appropriate without having to make up fictional companies or movies or whatever. This really does up the realism of the scene. And secondly, we will make some incremental revenue on it, but it really did start with wanting to have realistic ads in the subway tubes. We make no apologies about wanting to make money as this is a business (and a start-up at that,) but if we didn't think this added to the game, we wouldn't do it. Please ask someone who's in the beta or get some screen shots and see for yourself what the ads look like. It's got to be one of the most unobtrusive, context-appropriate use of ads that have ever appeared in a computer game.

Again, we're distressed by this controversy, and would like to get the clarifications out there as best we can, and we will try to be as responsive as is possible given we're extremely swamped trying to get ready for our big US release on October 31.

Max Schaefer
C.O.O., Flagship Studios

---

Quote:

---

Like some websites.... Ad server is unresponsive, the page doesn't load at all (which can be a major pain if you catch my drift, even more if it does that in game)

---

Quote:

---

Yeah I agree with DeejMango

That commercial time is REALLY gonna kill me xD to tell you the truth I like the simple ads also but because of the commercial im considering quitting the game Sure I might only be one person tpying this out load but im sure there is a handful of other people thinking to quit because of that commerical time

---

Quote:

---

our focus is 100% on making Hellgate: London (and Mythos) as good as they can be

---

Quote:

---

lol true about the membership xD but still if you ask me I would rather not have the ads.. like really not have them

---

Quote:

---

Kinda made me think... what happened to DR?

---

Quote:

---

That commercial time is REALLY gonna kill me xD to tell you the truth I like the simple ads also but because of the commercial im considering quitting the game Sure I might only be one person typing this out but im sure there is a handful of other people thinking to quit because of that commerical time

---

Quote:

---

I think you're mixed up. The people who do DR are a different company than those doing Hellgate: London. Go back and re-read what Ripper wrote. I think you'll see that he was using Flagship as an example.

---

Quote:

---

Imagine this, you're on satellite internet. You're limited to X bandwidth per month, most of which is spent checking email, surfing and playing DR. Now add streaming video or video downloads to the mix. Where'd all my bandwidth go? Now I can't play DR for the rest of the month.

Also, think of dial-up users(yes they still exist). Downloading or streaming media is hard for them to do. It eats up internet bandwidth.

---

Quote:

---

Also something that might be a viable options would be to allow the free members the option of ads and getting the bonus stuff or no ad and get nothing.

---

Quote:

---

exactly.

if that banner ad comes i'd actually be prompted to cancel my paid subscription just on the principle of it alone, there are better and less obtrusive ways to make money

this is bad news for this game as it will turn away many new players

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

exactly.

if that banner ad comes i'd actually be prompted to cancel my paid subscription just on the principle of it alone, there are better and less obtrusive ways to make money

this is bad news for this game as it will turn away many new players

---

live_jamie, you need to fully read through the posts. Paid members will never be subjected to ads.

On a separate note, the banner seems to be causing some distress. Personally, I don't see it as any different than banner ads one would see while surfing the internet. My concern with the banners is that there will be a lot of "dead space". That doesn't seem very efficient to me.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Yeah I agree with DeejMango

That commercial time is REALLY gonna kill me xD to tell you the truth I like the simple ads also but because of the commercial im considering quitting the game Sure I might only be one person tpying this out load but im sure there is a handful of other people thinking to quit because of that commerical time

---

In the grand scheme of things, 15 seconds isn't really that much. It takes longer for your health and mana to regen after a respawn.

Of course, there's a very easy way to avoid seeing those movies and get access to all the gear in the game.

---

Quote:

---

The reasons I bought membership were
#1) stackable pots
#2) bank
#3) support the devs.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Imagine this, you're on satellite internet. You're limited to X bandwidth per month, most of which is spent checking email, surfing and playing DR. Now add streaming video or video downloads to the mix. Where'd all my bandwidth go? Now I can't play DR for the rest of the month.

Also, think of dial-up users(yes they still exist). Downloading or streaming media is hard for them to do. It eats up internet bandwidth.

---

The download for the DR client is about 400-500MB. I don't envision dial-up users having the fortitude to withstand that kind of download given their connection speed. IF they are willing to sit through that (along with the disconnections and restarts), then I don't think the delay for the ads are going to push them away.

---

Quote:

---

Another option to look at for the videos is to allow people to choose if they want to watch the video, but give them a chance at a reward for watching it.

---

Quote:

---

I think most people are having issues with the possibility that it may take them more than fifteen seconds just to download the commercial, let alone watch it.

This may shock you, but: not everyone has broadband.

---

Quote:

---

Truly, I would be interested in seeing how many people that are on dial-up actually play MMO's, given the amount of network traffic that goes on between the client and server.

---

You might be surprised. I played my first real MMO, Asheron's Call, on NetZero when it was actually zero fee. As well as Anarchy Online. They were both "optimized for dialup" and sometimes I played a slideshow. But I still played. So did a lot of other people. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that all MMOs are still "optimized" for dialup. Luckily I don't have to worry about that now. But I still feel your pain, my dialup brethren.

Quote:

---

for me, it was:

#1) Rainbows, Purples, and Yellows
#2) Stackable potions
#3) Five bucks is cheap ...!

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I think most people are having issues with the possibility that it may take them more than fifteen seconds just to download the commercial, let alone watch it.

This may shock you, but: not everyone has broadband.

---

No, it's not a shock. Truly, I would be interested in seeing how many people that are on dial-up actually play MMO's, given the amount of network traffic that goes on between the client and server.

---

Quote:

---

Windows® 2000/XP

Intel® Pentium® III 800 MHz or equivalent

256 MB RAM

1 GB Available HDD Space

ATI™ Radeon® 9500 or NVIDIA® FX 5200 series video card

16-bit Sound Card

56k modem

Keyboard and mouse

---

Quote:

---

Nice, a browser below your gaming screen. How big will THAT be?

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Nice, a browser below your gaming screen. How big will THAT be?

---

It didn't say "below", it said "underneath". I wonder if it really means "in the background" or "behind", not below?

---