Around July, 2007, I was recovering from spinal surgery and looking for something to do while recovering. I stumbled across Dungeon Runners somehow (not sure where, strong meds and much pain clouded my memory). I fell in love as soon as I began playing. I was fascinated at the level 100's running abbadon and getting such cool mythic gear. Back then, I would sit in front of the obelisk and watch the 100's appear from an abby run and watch the shower of purple and sometimes even rainbow gear dropping as they ran to get more potions and run back in. A few minutes later, they appear again and so on. I wanted to be a part of that really bad. When I hit 100 I started running abby. BTW thanks spetsdod and yorkan for the first crucial lessons in the fine art of abby running. The drops were good and the runs were fast. It felt like rolling the dice, never knowing what would come up.

Much has changed since then, but abby was always there for me to try new builds and start my gear collection. Until the last patch. Now don't get me wrong. The new bosses are cool, but take some time to complete. I don't always have the time to spend on the game like I used to, but I still love the game and made many new friends along the way. Abby was a good way to "farm" for loot and was easy to get a pick-up game and full group.

I really hated to see him go and I think that many of the old timers feel the same way. I'm sticking around, but i think we'll lose alot of the abbadon veterans and all that knowledge from all those people trying to figure out the best and quickest way to make the run.

Please bring the level cap back to where it should be and save a DR tradition.

Other gripes without the long story.

Wishing Well- I wish I never see another blue peice falling.

Mythic Sally- We miss you. Please come back and tell the DR Gosh's that restock is not evil.

PS red is still set up for abby.... watching... waiting...

I agree, I was sad to see Abby get capped out at 90. I lost great amounts of motivation because of this. Maybe they'll rethink about it if there's enough people wanting it back.

I wouldn't mind killing that big bastard a few more times.

Honestly, I'm happy they capped Abby. There are now four bosses, (QoS, Balzack, Ratasputin and Manglefeet) at a higher level with much more interesting encounters, albeit one encounter is flawed (QoS) Yes, they take longer, but they're also more "fun". If they fix loot drops for QoS, that encounter might actually be worth doing, too.

As far as motivation goes for level 100 characters, I'd rather see more interesting developments than simply giving us a relatively simple boss to grind. Abby is appropriately challenging for lower level characters, but trivial (or should be) to level 100s. I want things that hold my interest at 100. Things like remorts, sidekicks/exemplars/mentoring, badge hunting, mini-games, etc...

In regards to some of the other concerns:

Wishing well - I agree

Mythic Sally - I disagree - it was too easy for a character with gold to simply farm her for RBs. As far as that goes, I think rainbows are too common. They should be harder to get. That's another reason I'm ok with Abby being capped.

I agree that Abby should not be capped. Abby is one of those phenomena that rarely happen in a game. I along with countless other level 100’s have spent hours running this boss and never got tired of it. Abby was more than just a place to find gear. It was a place for friends to gather, socialize and to meet new level 100 players. I miss logging on in the evening and seeing several full groups running Abby. I would gladly wait for a spot to open up just to visit friends and whack down on Abby a bit. I’m sure there were reasons behind the cap decision but I feel it is worth reconsideration. Abby was not just about the loot and there are far better places to run for gear. Abby was more a social club, one that has now been closed

The social aspect of running Abby hasn't changed. Just because he's capped at level 90 doesn't mean level 100s can't run him. While I agree that Abby runs were often social, and therefore more enjoyable, the reality is that 100s ran Abby for loot. If it wasn't about the loot, they'd still be running Abby.

There's no mythic sally.Why are than people still searching for it?

btw that wasn't mentioned in the patche notes?

I guess we can agree that we disagree. What I wrote was that it was not "just" about the loot. I doubt that we will see groups of level 100's running Abby now due to the loot and the fact that Abby is simply to easy while capped at 90.

Its true that for a group of experienced players Abby was not very difficult. I can say the same for all of the other bosses as well. One aspect of Abby that I had not considered is that running him solo on insane (to me) was more difficult than any other boss including Manglefeet.

I am truly sorry that your bum'ed on Abby to the point you no longer wish to have him as an option to run at level 100. I just don't see any valid reasons as to why Abby should be capped.

Abby is not about the loot for me. I didn't hit ONE BILLION on Abby. If anything, Abbadon is tougher. Abby is fast and a good social setting. Abby was the toughest Boss to solo on insane. It was possible, but took too much time and far too many potions.

The only reason to run him now is to power loot for a lower level player. When I leveled my first 100, nobody would power loot for me and I never asked.

It's not easy for a beggar to get respect when they hit 100. Karl says "You Win", not "They pushed you to 100, so what now?"

And Mythic Sally was not as easy after they fixed the rats 3 glitch. It was easy to find because a handful of players ran hard for her then gave her away to people that sat on her the rest of the day.

At first I was a bit sad that I couldn't farm Abby anymore, but after a while I found myself silenty thanking the person who was responsible for that.

When the patch came, I had to find a new boss to farm. I am really happy about Mutant Mania Massacre, and i'd run it over the Cleft Of Searing Knight anytime. When I run it on 1150%, the time (which is not even that long) it takes, over the loot you get is so worth it.


I think Abby was capped to encourage people to broaden their horizons, to explore and play at other areas. I'm pretty sure when the next big patch comes, QoS will be capped to a lower level, as a new dungeon and bosses become available.

If thats the case then....OH NO BALZYS NEXT!! DONT CAP BALZY! DONT CAP BALZY

*Gets picket sign*

*Marches at Stephens house*

Abaddon was capped at below 100, and a new boss was introduced with a new dungeon leading up to him... it's nice to see I am not the only one who assumed that this was done in response to the constant and frequent complaints that once you reach lvl 100, there is nothing new to do. (apologies if I'm putting words in your mouth)

Careful what you wish for. You just got it.



Edited by Khazandra (09/30/08 06:20 PM)

To be honest, I stopped running Abby when 1150 Balzack became plausible...more than that, very profitable. Since then, I did go back to w2 Abby a couple times when I was bored and wanted some fast-paced and friendly group farming.

I came in to 100 Abby at the last few months, and I learned an immense amount from other 100's and from gaining experience, and I had a lot of fun doing it.

However, Abby was getting repetitive (but that's inevitable), and I had basically already said my farewells to him before he was capped.

I think Balzack can be just as fun, and almost as quick. Manglefeet definitely takes more time but is good for the chaotic excitement (if that interests you).

I think the cap on Abbadon was a good move, since Abbadon was too overfarmed. People should be encouraged to farm some other Bosses. And yeah, Queen of Shadows need better loot. =(

It might be time to raise the level-cap soon. With more and more dungeons in the game, people will soon hardly be able to finish the quests and farming of the boss in one dungeon until they have to move on so they won't be to high level for the next dungeon.

Raising the level cap might pose too many problems...

Soon? I have that problem already...

I have to agree with Khazandra. I thought I had finished everything in Algernon when I was level 20-22. Algor's Terror Dome has a high level recommendation of 25. On top of that when I hit level 25, a new quest in Algernon (Orok Outpost to be specific).

The game seems to always give me an additional quest in the dungeon I am currently at, not to mention there are infinitely repeatable ones in each dungeon. My point, it is impossible to completely finish all quests for one dungeon. I have stopped trying.

I left Algernon early, missed the boss and the last two levels, just because if I had not done that I would have been too high level for Algor's Terror Dome by the time I was done in Algernon. I hope I wasn't missing out on much...

Right now I am level 47, and I just made it to Room of Creation. What's the cap in Embercore?

1. Upping the level cap is no option. Quoting some folks:
"It'll only take you longer to get there, but does not actually give something to do, at the end, same endgame.".
"Problems big time with new dungeons/quests/variables for items and alike when upping level cap".
"Instead of upping the level cap, add more endgame content, badges, minigames and more."

2. Abby back to 100. Why.. again? Social aspect might be a valid personal reason, but when being honest, it isnt just about that, just like Ripper said. The reason why abby was capped to 90 was because we farmed the crap out of him, specifically rainbows, just because HE was the easy one. He didnt had mobs before the final boss fight, easy loot, and please realise the devs added 3 new/edited boss encounters while they were not used AT ALL. All the work for nothing, everyone farmed abby anyway. What was the last time you seen a 5 man group farming the Shadow Queen, or Ratsputin? Probably a long time ago, and thereby you can conclude that abby was mostly for the loot. If you'd ask me, I dont see any reason why playing DR and socialising is different then farming another boss.

3. Other stuff, like the well, I have to agree with, definitely.

It's 40-80, lowered from 100 with this Chunk. I think they should raise the lower dungeons a little so all fell in better in line with each other.

And LR, making the level-cap higher would be better in several ways, but at the same time they needed to change around the levels required for the different dungeons. It would make the game a whole lot bigger.



Edited by LordMagnus (10/01/08 12:28 PM)

Oh, good. I am safe then! Thanks.

Agreeing with the other part of your post, I don't particularly feel the level cap of the game itself needs to be raised. 100 is such a nice round number. However, the level caps of the first few dungeons could do with going up a little bit, if nothing else because I prefer out-leveling dungeons one at a time.

LM, do mind, that for example I did farm for longer then a year now just to get T3, or level 102 gear. Upping the level cap from like 100 to 200 would directly make my input to get T3 gear worthless.

Once I read this I just realized that DR is heading in the wrong direction. People use to enjoy farming Abby and searching for Mythic Sally.

True, Abby was farmed, but people enjoyed it. The other dungeons are farmed as well, but take longer. Abby was a quick pick-up-group dungeon for level 100's.

Hunting for Sally was a neat twist to the game and paid off if you could find her. Most of the time she didn't offer any good stuff, but when she did it was certainly rewarding. Now it gone and killed another thing we could do for bored level 100's.

The only people who do not like Abby or Sally are those who do not want others to gain rainbows efficiently or allow others to twink their characters. Thanks guys, your rainbow elitism is killing the game for those who reached 100.

Unless DR seriously thinks about raising the 100 cap, I can't see DR surviving another year unless they pour tons more money into marketing to sustain the high turnover player rate.

"The only people who do not like Abby or Sally are those who do not want others to gain rainbows efficiently or allow others to twink their characters. Thanks guys, your rainbow elitism is killing the game for those who reached 100."

And exactly with that you gave yourself a reason against your believe. Rainbows are way to easy to get. Bosses being worked on and put into the game were nearly to never farmed because abby was just way better. I dont see a reason to put up abby for level 100.

Its farming the crap out of abby, getting all T3 gear and then complain about the endgame. People dont realise that getting rainbows way less frequently would offer more endgame, as far as you can call it like that. Now people get bored quickly.

Option 1. Put abby to 100 again, let people farm all T3 gear, let them complain about endgame after that, and raise the cap, thats 2 things to do, bad things.

Option 2. Keep abby this way, face rainbows are harder to get, and create more endgame instead of making even more dungeons for level 100+ folks.

lol, that's true, didn't think of that. Been hunting some items for well enough half a year too now. Perhaps for the future then, if the Item Crafting gets brought into the game and the possibility to raise the level of an item.

I miss abby too. I agree with Bigred & MaDad....I used to run abby with both of you back in the day, and I miss it . Not to say that the new bosses are not fun, but abby was something different. Please let us have him back....

On another note, a friend and I frequent the Shadows Pinnacle on a regular basis...we love that boss too, although it seems we are the only ones. We have noticed the loot has been reduced there too...and it seems tougher.

The problem with the new bosses is that it is so much better to run them solo or with two people on 1150 loot, that no one wants to group, so the social aspect of DR is declining...group wise anyway.

And I also have to agree with LR, if the level cap was raised all that stuff i got out of abby...T3 wise would have no value any longer and it would be like starting from level 1 again...which many of us have done

That's the nail on the head Val, its so true. Abby was the one boss that you had to run with a group, the more players the better (most of the time)

BigRedNeck, Thank you for speaking what was in my mind. Abby was just fine the way he was. I have to admit I was a bit mad when I found out about the Abby change. If there is anything I can do to get you guys to change Abby's lvl cap, Please let me know. I will do anything and I am sure so will many other long time players. Feel free to pay W2 a visit and get everyones opinion on this, You will find out how many 100's enjoyed farming Abby and would really like him back. The wishing well also needs work, Or to be honest you can get rid of it and bring back, "Rainbow Sally ". Only the skilled players could find her.

I would like to thank everyone at Dungeon Runners for everything you have done with this game. It is a good game and I will continue to play it for as long as I can. But do take the time to consider what I am asking for and so many other long time players. Thank You

Hi

I agree with runners who want Abby back to 100.

I ask the DEV's to please give it some thought please in what us the long time players are asking for. I know change is sometimes needed, But you dont have to change everything. And so what if we already have 4 lvl 100 boss'es to do. At 100 you cant lvl anymore anyway. Whats 1 more lvl 100 boss. its nothing I tell you. And for those players who seek a challenge, I am sure the new boss will give you that. So enjoy

Sincerly,
LordBruno Of W2

Taking away abby is the same thing as taking away my endgame content.

What's the difference in making rainbows harder to get and create endgame or rainbows easier to get and create endgame? Why can't we farm our RB while getting in more endgame contents? Is it because we get bored faster since we finish faster? I been here when there was absolutely no contents or pvp and lvl cap was 50. I wasn't bored until abby was gone. Not to mention people doesn't want to party anymore and less people are online now.

We all think differently though and that's just my opinion. And I also realized that people who got majority of the T3 rainbow doesn't want abby back. Coincidence? I think not.

Making abby lvl 90 cap has only made the game with one less boss to bother going to. To me, its about tactics and fun, rainbows are a 'bonus'.
At the end of the day, its about personal preference. Why remove something that people enjoyed doing?
If some people found it satisfying to farm ANY boss over and over just to 'try' and get all T3 rbs...good on them, its up to the player what they want to do and what they find amusing. If that is what they want let them have it I say.
If someone is upset by the fact that someone has all T3 and they dont, maybe its because they are either not online enough to be able to farm efficiently or they havent been able to find a solution to a boss encounter and put in the time required.
BTW devs thanks for the new content, it gave me my first ever clicker :P
PS: Make T3 SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIINEEEEEEEEEE!!! so we know who these people are...like we dont already

lol, that would be fun. Silvery shine for T2 and golden for T3.

I forgot to mention one more thing. It took you around a year to farm T3 from abby. Now that RB are harder to find from boss time-wise, let's make that around two year or so for full T3. Do you really think this will make player have more motivation? All that happened was that it just takes a lot longer to find T3 RB that fits your class. A lot longer.

Wasn't DR supposed to be a casual game? The reason why I love this game was because it was quick and simple. Other games like Diablo2, people farmed the same boss for years and years because it was quick and simple and they enjoyed doing it. Now, they took away that "fun" and that same feeling that I enjoyed is gone.

Being able to have variety of boss is nice but now, we're forced to go to the new bosses. Boss like Balzack isn't friendly for a ranger so that's one less boss for me. If people were complaining about being bored of Abby, they can just go to the new bosses and it does happen frequently like the quote below.


You guys say don't bring Abby back but you guys farmed it for years, why can't we do the same? That's because you already got your full T3 from abby after a year of farming.

"I been here when there was absolutely no contents or pvp and lvl cap was 50."

Yeah, so was I. For the record, level cap 50? I cant remember that, probably because the cap always has been 100.

Back to the topic, just look the way the devs do, 3 new bosses, old one still farmed. Can you explain me why all 3 other bosses have been modified so that they all got pre-boss-battle mobs everywhere?

Want abby back? Sure, with pre-boss-battle battles. I dont think youll get abby back how he was.

No, Dungeon runner level cap was 50 before. I recall making a suggestion on this forum on my previous forum account (which was separate from main account) to increase the level cap to 100. If you didn't know that, it means I was here before you and I'm not even bored with this game yet either. At least until Abby cap.

Do you really think that only the old boss will be farmed? People will get bored and will try out other bosses.

What you said could be true though. It might not be the same.

I already have has a new boss to farm. One that i can get many times more rainbows and loot, but as Val said I only run alone or with one other person.

My main concern is the social aspect of the group run.

I have a killer Balzack Build and do pretty well on Manglefeet, but i do it alone.
Starting to feel like a hermit. When I would get bored and want some company, I could always break Red out and get in a good Abby group. The first thing many new 100's used to do is start setting up a build for Abby.

I usually get 2-4 rimes as many rb's on another boss in the same amount of time as farming Abby. And yes i have multiple t3 builds for all 3 of my 100's and still am not bored with the game.

The cap gives me one less chance to meet new 100's and kind of mentor them on how to take care of the first big challenge, farming Abbadon.

I can't and don't know of anyone who can run Abby on 1150% insane solo or with one other in the group.

So the too many rb's aspect of the argument is kinda redundant since the new bosses can give far more rb's if you run them right. I run the new bosses alone, so no more showing by example how it can be done.

So can't say welcome to the 100 club anymore. More like welcome to 100 isolation and please don't get bored in a week and find a new game to conquer.

Yeah, isolation is another issue. The new bosses gives nice loot and Abby was just decent. If they capped Abby because they want us to explore other areas, we've done it and will do it in the future.

Nobody cares if you ding 100 because you're off on your own until you quit.

Edited by Delusion (10/03/08 09:43 AM)

So really, it sounds like the true issue is that people can't get their alts together to run Abby on 1150 and were forced to group if they wanted to farm him on 1150. And he was a quick run so it was feasible to get a group together to get several runs done quickly. At least for some that sounds like the issue.

I dont see why any 100 boss should be doable solo on 1150 but thats just my opinion. Hell, I dont see why any boss period should be soloable on 1150. Again, just my opinion.

And I call bs on those who say its social if they are the same who get their alts together to do boss runs on 1150. You could get a group together of 100s and do some of those other bosses on 1150.

I only mention the 1150 part to emphasize that we don't run abby just for easy loot when there is much easier loot out there. We are losing one social aspect of the end game so it's not the end of the game.

Another reason to lift the cap off of abby, would be for people whose play time is limited, not everybody can spend hrs. on DR. You can get in several runs farming abby, the newer bosses they might be luckey if they can get in more than a run or two. Abby can be solo'ed on 1150 , but not profitable =)

Technically, I haven't been playing DR for a year yet, and there are plenty of upgrades I'm still looking for. Don't assume that my reasoning is "I have everything I need so I don't care."

As I did say with my previous post, I'm indifferent to Abby as I stopped farming him before he was capped. ...on the other hand, seeing the amount of support for his return, it wouldn't bother me at all if they brought him back to max level. I would probably join a group every once in a while, also, just to say hi to folks and enjoy the rhythm that always developed with a well-built, 5 man abby group.

My playtime is limited and the reason why I stuck with DR is because it was "casual" mmorpg. Getting a T3 RB drop for your own class is extremely rare and like you all said, it takes a year+ to farm it all. The only thing the cap did was increase the time of farming. I would just log on and do quick Abby then log off, now it takes tons of time to get a few boss in.

I used to do boss runs for an hour or two but now, I can't even stay on for more than 20min because it's slow and doesn't seem like it's worth the time. My playtime dramatically decreased after the cap and I don't think it's a coincidence.

Wow, this thread is certainly controversial

Well, just to put in my two cents: Yes, there are definitely better bosses to farm if one wanted t3 gear. The argument that abby should be nerfed so it becomes harder to farm? Simply moot. Personally I never ran abby for my t3, hell I don't think I ever did get a decent t3 from abby. If I wanted t3 rbs I'd just run 1150% balzack all day long, every day.

Abby was the only boss where it was advantageous to run in a group, hence encouraging group play, and thus social play. It was fun, especially if you had a strong group who got into a really quick rhythm. It was also a great way to meet other 100s, both old and new. I loved coming on and seeing an open 100 abby group going, I'd pop in and run a few just to see what's up.

Here's my main problem with the abby nerf: abby runs filled a "niche" of sorts. You could log in for 5-10 mins, do a couple runs, log out again. To farm the other bosses you'd need to commit a substantial chunk of time. This is supposed to be a casual game, no? Abby was great as a pastime, I'd do a couple runs in the morning before heading out, or if I found myself with some time to kill in between classes, I'd run abby a bit, then off again. Now what reason would I have to come on DR? Only when I'm able to commit quite a large chunk of my time. Abby was the perfect "pick-up-and-play" boss. Completely soloable on normal, completely beneficial on insane with a group. Where's the casual aspect? Where's the social aspect? This was abby's purpose.

Btw people never quit the game because they had t3, hell I have almost all t3 (still missing some jewelry) and I'm still here. People quit the game because there was no endgame content; other than farming, plvling, or pvp'ing. Well tbh, if they would put in some decent endgame content (crafting, rebirth system, etc. etc. there are loads of ideas around) I wouldn't mind the abby nerf as much. Crafting for example could be a great new pastime . Making it harder to farm (which is already debatable imo, as 1150% balzack is far superior) by nerfing abby is hardly "making more endgame". It's just prolonging the game by turning it into a hardcore grindfest, like many of the other mmos.

PS: I second that make t3 armour shine aspect . Though that might encourage more plvl requests...

Well said, I completely agree with you. As a full-time ranger, I don't prefer to go to 1150% balzack because of our limited skill so taking away abby was like taking away everything from me (end-game content, "casual" play, fun).

I was never a forum-person and only lurked on the forum prior to the cap. It's only one or two bosses I can fit anyway so I just don't even try anymore, lol.

Edited by Delusion (10/03/08 11:38 PM)

Thank you Sacrilegious for putting into words the actual purpose and meaning that I was trying to convey in my posts. great post

We're losing a tradition - a 100 legacy and rite of passage.

I'm not great with words, as you can see my post count i don't even bother trying that often.
I have been playing DR for approx. 4 months now, actualy ran abby 100 or less times.It was the ONLY time i ever played with other 100's other than the balzy groups Darth usualy has open in wrld2....
As far as the social aspect i have about 7 or 8 100's on my friends list, 3 of them i actualy care to talk to....and since i dont randomly whipser ppl and there is no dungoen that ppl play together (MMM sucks, I'm sorry but it just sucks.) i will never meet anyone other than in trades.

Bring back abby and make a few ppl happy, i mean, only a few ppl play DR anyhow.

Same for me, I would've never have this much post if Abby wasn't capped. I don't have time to do a quick run before work anymore so I don't even try. I have to quit in the middle of the run anyway. I just come on the forum and ask for Abby back and don't even bother playing much as of now.