Hello all. I have a question about training and the elements/schools of magic. I originally started off with fire because it was the first button on my bar I then realized that somethings don't mind getting hit with a fireball so I use ice on them and during both, shadow lightning was my "AOE" which didn't work too well once shadow stuff came into play, but no worries, by that time I had Ring of Fire (ooo ha ha) and Ice Shards (I think that's what it's called). Anyway, the more I progressed the dungeons became more diversified (as you all know) by mixing elements in the groups of monsters. Spending the money to keep everything up coupled with limited bar space has become frustrating at times and add to that selecting gear as well (I'm strongest in fire).

My question is: Is there a type of damage that is more...universal (outside of physical damage)? I guess I'm looking for a "white" damage spell or spells. Do they exist and I just need to be patient?

Thanks

Gather all monsters from the game in a pile and Shadow-damage is probably the one who generally hurts most foes the most, just because it's so strong. Ice isn't bad either.
People are more than welcome to correct me, I'm not playing my mage as often as I should...

I've always wanted to ask this question and your thread seems like the perfect place to ask it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

My understanding is that there is a balance between our element's bonuses and our target's resistances.

So if i have +300 to fire attacks, +100 to ice attacks and I'm faced with a fire hulk that has +100 resistance to fire but +0 resistance to ice, THEN:

If I attack with fire, 300-100 = 200 vs. if I attack with ice, 100-0=100; fire gives me the 'better' attack rating and better chance of hitting with that spell.

Therefore, if you have enough bonuses from items in fire, then it is worthwhile sticking with fire even against fire resistant creatures (at least to the point of effectiveness). But, if I really have bonuses spread out between fire, ice, and shadow, then one, I'm not being as effective as I can be and two, I should mix up my attacks to find the best bonus/resistance matchup vs. the enemy.

Is that right?

Wicked good question because I've wondered that as well myself. BUT how do you know what the resistance the mob has though? I see something that looks all fire-ish and usually it resists my fire stuff a lot (though lately it could be because I was playing in Embercore when I shouldn't have been since I just reached level 40).

Their names give you clues.. Look at the Shadow Fade Devastators, Divine Fade Generals, Venom Spitters, Fire Lich Lords or Ice Orok Runts, for example. Heros and Champions have a colored glw around them, that gives you a hint as well... red glow means fire monster.

Hm, I think I'm wrong in my basic understanding. From what I can tell, resistance gives a higher chance of resisting the spell and thereby not receiving any damage from a 'hit'.

13 times your level is the ideal to have a 75% chance of resisting the elemental attack. Thus, if you're level 10, having 130 in fire resistance gives you a 75% chance of resisting the spell. If you're level 40, then 520 is what you need to resist the spell (gulp!) 75% of the time. I'm not sure how to guess at the level of mobs/monsters except by their rank suggesting that they are low, medium and high in resistances and you can learn by attacking them what they are.

Then all bonuses is just damage per second if you do hit. From what I can tell, mobs are lower in resistance than champions and heroes but then it comes down to how often they resist the attack.

Very interesting actually. I've generally stuck with fire attacks and crispy critters is my favorite and it's done awfully well against even heroes and champions but obviously bosses immune to it or having high resistance has forced me to change tactics.

I guess if you're getting great bonuses on one element on damage, you can stick with it unless you see a lot of 'resist' popping up which suggests that you really should change elements.

Edited by duke82075 (08/19/08 01:36 PM)

Yeah, what I meant was what their actual resist numbers were. So that red ringed mob is a fire mob, but what is its resist? Knowing the resist number would enable us to do the math... "resist - damage bonus = is it worth it or should i switch".

It's funny, for whatever reason I don't like Crispy Critters (outside of the range) and primarily use Fire Bolt and Ring of Fire (ooo ha ha) and do rather well with those, tossing in the occasional shadow lightning. I tend to drop my bait, go after the healers then range and then unload on the melee guys. Probably should switch to the melee first then the range, but it's 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other it seems

It's not quite as simple as Damage - Resist = Effectiveness.
It's more of a (Spellpower+DamageBonus)*Resist% = General DPS.

I expect that a level 20 Fire Thing would have the same Resist % as a level 40 Fire Thing- the resistance number would be higher, but as chance to resist is something like (Resist# * Coefficient)/Level=Resist%, the % ends up the same between the two.

Anyway, where was I..

Ah- Choosing whether to stick with Fire versus Fire Foes is tricky, and partially based on playstyle.
Do you have the Defensive options to not die if you get several unlucky Resists in a row? Or would you prefer to deal less damage per hit but not have to worry about a lucky Resist screwing up your plans?
If you like the first one, stick with focusing on one element. If you like the second, stick with gear that adds Fire damage, and maybe keep spare +Ice (or shadow) stuff with you/in the bank- You'll spend more money on training up both elements though- if you're super-low on money, this might not be viable.

I like to beat stuff up fast and I'm not afraid of running away (that's why I clear everything around me so I have room to run if need be). I could probably use pots, but for whatever reason I've always been of the mind set "If I can't make/cast it, I can do without". I know, stubborn. I always look at gear with +fire damage on it and +INT (and a little +END too). Which brings me to... which is better, +damage or +INT? Yeah, you get mana from the INT, but if I have a piece of gear that is +6 INT and +50 Fire Damage while another piece is +50 INT and +15 Fire Damage, which would I do more fire damage with?

I do tend to have something other than fire on my bar somewhere just incase whatever I'm fighting has no regard for my style and just won't die

I would use fire for the first few (30~40) levels, mostly because it's easy to get gear... You'll find that you can kill a boss that resists a attack type, I'll just take longer. It's Immune mobs (bosses and such) that you have to change spells for.
Something else to keep in mind is some spells are better on some bosses then others, for example: Abbadon, immune to fire obviously but also resistant to shadow, ice (go fig) is best for him.

Quick breakdown:

Fire: Long range, higher crit chance, Crispy Critters will hit any enemies in range, not just the first one.

Shadow: Good on just about everything, has a homeing ability and AoE.

Ice: High minimum damage it keeps your damage from falling to squat, Shards can pump out a lot of damage in a short time, almost nothing resists ice. Ice Bolt sucks in non-PvP combat

Divine: Coming with chunk 4!

Well the balance doesn't work quite as simply as that, if a monster is resistant it doesn't resist part of your attack (like 1/2 damage) it resists the whole attack.

So if your fighting something Immune to fire you'll never do damage to it, however if your fighting something with high resists you may still do damage to it... just not often.

So in your example I would stick to whatever my primary attack type is, if I can't kill it with that then I'd switch.

There really isn't a good rule of thumb for it other then "If it works, it works."

QR

Decide for yourself which ever element you like the most and then gather up EQP with the correct DPS bonuses.

Fire: the "Lukewarm" prefix of the name

Shadow: the "Dreary" prefix of the name

Ice: the "Chilling" prefix of the name

If you're going to use Crispy Critters, then Pyromania is a must have. Good luck in finding the setup that suits you best.

My favorite mage build for me (I like to experiment a bit) is a Shadow-Poison build.

First off, I place my points in each level up as:
~2 points into Endurance
~3 points into Intelligence

Then I get points in the following for my equipment:
+Intelligence
+Shadow Magic damage per second
(For the above two, I figure out which setup gives me the highest DPS)
Then:
+Poison damage per second
+Endurance
(Usually in this order, unless I can get my Shadow Lightning DPS the highest with a different arrangement)

Here is the skills and how I set them up in the hotbar:
Mouse 1: Shadow Lightning
Hotbar 1: Dark Wizardry
Hotbar 2: Toxic Talent
Hotbar 3: Improved Shadow Lightning
Hotbar 4: Gym Freak
Hotbar 5: Couch Potato
Hotbar 6: Mental Prowess
Hotbar 7: Bookworm
Hotbar 8: Bling Gnome (Mostly used for auto-picking coins, I sell all
equipment except for normal as of level 15)
Mouse 2: Gaseous Blast

Strategy at the moment:
I only have to worry about hitting keys 1 & 2 on the hotbar (Dark Wizardry and Toxic Talent). Usually I will use one and then the other alternating if lots of mobs in a long chain. For real tough bosses with lots of minions, I will make sure both are ready and then attack using both at maximum damage.)

All the rest in hotbar are passive skills. My main attack is mouse 1 (Shadow Lightning) and as it comes up, I hit them for Gaseous Blast (mouse 2).

Added note: I NEVER buy equipment from a vendor (I never even look at what they carry). This saves all my coin for buying my skills for this build.

So far this is working for me and I have high damage and dispatch groups of mobs quickly and don't have to use a lot of health potions, only sometimes one, maybe two tops if it is a difficult boss group.

As for mob resistances I haven't had a problem yet although who knows much later in the game. If lightning or poison doesn't get them (immune to both?), then added side skills on weapon in-between lighting-poison damage can fill in (fire or ice on weapon).

Oh, one more thing. Both my Shadow Lightning and the Gaseous Blast are AOE. I never just attack one creature at a time. Just jump in the fray and mix it up, watching them fall all around me! LOL

Edited by Jedi61 (09/04/08 12:59 PM)

Just a side note -- crispy critter doesn't hit all of the enemies in front of you at once, its limited to damaging 3 mobs at any given time -- it goes so fast you rarely notice it though. However at higher levels, if you are doing large pulls you will definitely notice it. (Easy example -- go to balz, and move into a corner and crispy critter out at balz, his minions, and his healer -- even with all of them in range, only 3 will get damaged at any given time)

Well its up to you to chose but if ya ask me u should get gear for all three tipes ,as i did ,and i think shadow is the most fun.
But its really up to u
Wasa lvl 100 all knowing arch shadow wizard
840 pvp wins

Btw this is my new profile i got bored of the old name :P

Check out this link on the wiki:

http://www.thetownstons.com/thetowns...g_the_Elements

I found it helpful. For instance: farther floors of algor terror dome are great for a shadow mage, but all of vexation is ugly, so you might skip right to widowers