now im sure u have seen this all before but its time someone did sumit about it...

anybody who uses chill bill in a pvp game shows no skill..and something shud be done...

for example... There shud be DeathMatch options
such as "no Summon" modes or "no warrior" and so on and so forth...

or

bill shud be made for PvE only as if u use bill in pvp its rather pathetic and u feel good when u win but showed n skill what so ever

PvP is all about adapting to what the other person throws at you as well as having a certain amount of skill to consistently win matches.

Those who can adapt to when a player uses Chill Bill will do well. Those who can't adapt will get frustrated and probably be pwned a lot.....

Chill Bill is not invincible, he can be beat and rather easily too if you have the right mix of skills and gear.

PvP is currently where the Dev's want it to be so right or wrong, for bad or good it is what it is, and it will likely not be changing in the forseeable future.

...

Immaturity doesn't only take the form of "crybaby."

If Chill Bill was simply three self-buffs: one that randomly slows enemies, one that randomly stun enemies and one that randomly block random ranged attacks... would you still say it takes "no skill"? If you do, then I guess skills like "I'm Rubber, You're Screwed", elemental resistances... etc. takes no skill to use either. Which in truth is true: it takes no skill at all.

Because Skill is an overrated concept in PvP. "Having Skill" means barely anything next to all the other factors of PvP in DR. Speaking of "this spell requires no skill to use" is laughable, because no spell does (apart from spells that require aiming).

If anything, Bill requires more skill to use than Trigger Finger Frenzy or Dark Conniption. You need to know roughly how his AI works, and how to position him correctly so he will do what you want him to do and not run off to the spectator's seat.

If you say, "Bill is overpowered", I will definitely consider the issue seriously. However, you said "Bill requires no Skill", and that is just plain laughable, because nothing save the very basic spells do; and Bill in fact does require more skill than all the rest of your fancy game-tipping Buff spells/Passives.

My main problem with Bill is that he can slow you down (monster molasses). In that regard, it's like playing 1 vs. 2. It's especially noticeable when someone is running away from you, and Bill follows behind essentially blocking you from catching them.

Yes, inflicting Bill with fear can be useful, but when you're chasing someone, especially a mage, the time it takes to perform a combat action often breaks the deal.

well myself being one of the twink losers mention above dont really have anything to say to that guys comment because it was even more pathetic than me complainin about it.

Bill is unfair and does need tweaking , i get slowed down , my ranged attacks blocked , and stop me healing when he randomly hit sumthing crappy on me just to stop me healin while the other guy gets away , fair???? dont think so

Chill Bill is not overpowered. I can (sometimes easily) kill people close to my level, who use him. The problem is that the level gap becomes quite cumbersome for lower level pvpers when they face a lvl 100 with a Chill Bill that's also higher lvl than them.

Split PVP into level sub-categories (1-50, 51-100) please. I'm done grinding out levels, and pvp is no fun when it's a level 100 and Chill Bill against 1 level 30. And I'm damn sure it's not fun for my opponent when I see a giant Chill Bill and just run the entire time to split the match.

Using all the skills in the game and coming up with tactics to defeat them are what good PvP players do. Not just in this game but in any game. Most online games require very little skill in PvP. Generally the first to hit will win. Not always but in most situations this holds true.

If you really want people to take you seriously spell out words like you and should. Shortening words in text messages and IMs is one thing, posting on a forum is another and if you want people to take you for an adult or mature, proper spelling of simple words is a good idea.

W00T, I've thought of that before, never mentioned it, and is been buried in the back of my mind.

That was one of the things that really irritated me, the fact that its like having another person to fight, and you don't even get credit for killing him.

To add to the idea since bill has buffs and stuff.

Killing your opponent gets you 100 points right? Right. Well killing an unbuffed bill and getting 100 points wouldn't be fair in the least bit. And getting 100 points for killing a fully buffed level 25 bill would be a bit much as well. So i suggest that the amount of points awarded is determined by active buffs and bill's level.

For killing a fully buffed bill(snow globe and nippy twigs active) you get points equal to its level, lvl 25 fully buffed gets 25 points.

For unbuffed or partial buff you get points equal to level - (minus) 10 or 15 points per inactive buff, with minimum points being 1(one). So for a level 25 bill unbuffed you get 1 point, same with a lvl 30 bill. At level 100 you get 70 Points for killing the unbuffed bill.

Sounds pretty darn good to me, it would give a slight disadvantage to using bill. I know what some of you are thinking, "to use bill you lose 2 or 3 skill slots!" so what, when you have a fully buffed bill, you don't need those skill slots do you? What are you taking out to put bill in? Probably stuns/knock backs right, maybe a ranger or melee elemental skill like poison shot or soul rend. Maybe heal and/or a resist buff or a debuff like unnerving shout, things that are no longer necessary once you have bill. Bill stuns and knocks your opponent back, so you don't really need that do you(unless you're a fighter, need holy roller). Since he slows your opponent down, not only with monster molasses, his nippy twigs slows like ice bolt. And since bill him self does damage you don't need to augment it with poison shot or soul rend. The argument is in valid. If it wasn't i'd have no trouble at all beating someone with chill bill that without i can skunk.


For those of you who think that its just lack of skill or motivation or some junk like that, that us "twinks" without bill have such a hard time against someone with bill. Why don't you make you're self a twink, for fun i guess, and fight a lvl 100 mage that has chill bill. Then we'll see how you feel about bill and fairness.

I agree...and I edited the quote to leave out the part that didn't need to be there.

It's my opinion. And on what Cysira said on getting more points for killing a buffed Bill, I say no. Killing a person that is fully buffed doesn't get you more points than un-buffed, so why should you for Bill? We don't need them making us want to NOT use skills.

Thats not how i meant it. The point was that you get less points for unbuffed. An un buffed bill is usually pretty easy to kill. With bills on the lower end, less than lvl 50, its really easy for me to kill an unbuffed bill, so having a flat point base would encourage the use of the buffs. Those that simply use bill in 1 slot, so that he can get in the way a bit, using him like extra health, would actually be forced to use at least snow globe so he doesn't die as easily and their opponent doesn't get the upper hand just by killing bill. The idea is to get a little middle ground.

Having a fully buffed bill be the basis for the points, full buffed gets full points. Its just balancing, and of coarse the lower leveled people would get the short end of the stick as usual. Now i'm not saying my suggested line couldn't use some work, maybe something more advanced, a bell curve of sorts, some sort of curvy mathematical thingy. Maybe 25 points on a lvl 25 bill is still a bit much, buffed or unbuffed. And same goes for at level 100, maybe 70 points for an unbuffed bill is a bit much. But I think my design is a good starting point.

Just remember that a flat rate per level or flat period for the points gained from killing bill would absolutely encourage the use of the buffs, not that thats bad, but it would almost make it a necessity.

The idea needs some work. Just throwing in points gained from bill kills, without thinking of how its going to effect the balance is going to likely hurt more than help.

Just think about this, a flat point rate, say, full points to a kill, 100 points. I can take down a lvl 25 unbuffed bill, in only a few shots with my shot gun. Now think, guy comes out the gate with just bill, bam bam, dead, he summons again, bam bam dead. I'm up 200 points and haven't even touched the guy. Thats a good lead to start a match, 2-0, in under a minute, weather or not this guy is even close to a match or some 70% average joe looking for some fun. A flat points system gives advantages back to the opposing person.

With my rough idea that same situation would have me with only 2 points instead of 200. If the bill was buffed, i'd have 50 points, half a normal kill. And of coarse while i'm working on bill, they're presumably attacking me, i could be close to death, who knows. But at least i'd be somewhere after spending that time working on bill. That is the biggest problem with bill, its a waste of time. If I can get around bill for whatever reason, I'm attacking and trying to kill something that i get no credit for. All the while my opponent gets to shoot THROUGH, by the way, bill and damage me, while I haven't gotten to do much if anything to him.

And it wouldn't cause any balance issues with bill vs bill since everything is fair game.

But to give some thought on RMG's concern/view. Well, um a fully buffed person doesn't get double health. Thats why there should be a slight difference. And to counter your thought on how a person can change their amount of health, while thats true, if a person starts with 50k health and with some gear changing gets 100k max health, he doesn't get a full heal(like when activating snow globe). And they also sacrifice something to gain that health, usually attack power and/or attack rating. This isn't the case with bill, with just snow globe its double health(is it more for higher levels, i can't remember if snow globe levels at all lol), there is no decrease in attack power or anything else. Add on nippy twigs which does increase attack power, while adding stun/knock back and speed debuff.

Who uses Bill without buffing him?....Waste of space IMO.

you guys are missing a huge problem here......say some noob decides to be an [censored] and someone has a un buffed bill....he easily kills it and runs the whole game. instead of a stalemate like it should be he wins. just because he decided to kill a un buffed bill and get like 10 points. but if killing bill gets u points in the future i [u]might[u] do that to some people i dont like

I think you should get the same amount of points for killing Bill, no matter if he is buffed or not.

In response to KR:

Thats why I suggested the points awarded being different. Maybe it should be 0 points for a weak unbuffed bill, below lvl 50 where his health is pretty low.

Bah, no, I won't post anymore on the issue.

I think Bill should be in PvP still because it isn't showing no skill... People who have Bill has earned the right to use him. The only time It really shows no skill is when They just stand in one place and let Bill fight. Bill is really easy to beat and I think that when Chill gets a kill it should count as .5 of a kill instead of 1. I am just saying Bill is easy to kill and paople who use them have earned the right to use him.

Well after reading the 1st, 2nd and last thread (bad habit ) I'd have to say exactly what Cthulhu said in her(?) post.
I'd also add that should is spelled "should" and not "shud" lol

Jokes aside I've never been bothered by Bill in PvP, he does so little damage he's mostly just something to walk around.

I should also add Roll with the times people!!! PvP isn't frozen in it's own space-time continuum!
New spells, New items! Things change! OMGWTF!

DarthNinja
lvl 100 Arch Ninja

Right and on a more helpful note, try using a knockdown or your own bill/monsterbait to keep him off you and out of your way.

Another little fact for Bill users:
You can heal a hurt bill by hitting him with an ice attack (Shards or Ice Bolt).

DarthNinja
lvl 100 Arch Ninja

I would respond to the "just adapt" argument, but I already have.

while i agree with the idea i must say u have absolutely no room to talk about things being fair. twinks get HUGE advantages. they get rebalanced to 101 and the lvl 100 gets nerfed. i would much recomend twinks stop complaining about fairness. ( spelling bad using internet on Wii.)

I totally aggree with this.
Or the summoner of bill should lose some (about 33% ?) HP when Bill dies.

I had been pvp'ing with my twink for a while, so when I logged in my lvl 100 I saw that this is true, but twinks are getting a nerf in the next patch. Hopefully, that will help...however, I think Bill is still an issue, and I'm skeptical that the "fix" they have in mind (melting Bill) will solve the problem.