I'm out of ideas.

There are a few lev 100 mages out there that seem incredibly indestructable.

One in particular is using rank 6 BSoL. Armed with a lev 98 Sharidan and purp gear (lev 97 amulet and remaining items lev 100), except for the yellow rings (lev 94 and lev 100).
I'm doing damage, but only am able to get him down to about 1/2 his hps. My hits on him appear to be about 3-8% of hitting someone without BSoL. Is that what it's suppose to be? Does anyone have any suggestions how to break through that, or how I may increase damage output? Are there any weakness that I may be missing?

As a ranger, I'm using tox talent and ment prow to increase my poison output. His resists on poison is 291.

Hmm.. as you're a low lvl.. Get as much Att Rating as you can get to get through his defense rating, and use acidic blight, its pretty holy. Use the stand in trick possible, and use edges smart. (Lure with a corner and stand in + slow down). More I cant say as I dont know about who you talk, but no need to say it, you'll do fine. I need to say that even I as a lvl 100 fighter got probs doing well against such a mage.

Go pure agility and pure attack speed.

I think shields are vastly underrated in PvP. That's up to 22% of shots (highest block rating I've seen) that isn't getting through to even touching his BSOL which further cushions his health. As far as I know, shields aren't affected by acidic blight since they block 22% regardless of the user's defense. Against physical attack users, that's mathematically, a really strong defense - it means you "miss" (it's being blocked) 22% of your shots regardless of how good your attack rating is. Further, a lot of the RB shields have reflection which means even if the shots get through, you're taking damage.

Against elemental users, however, shields are useless so that's where the balance is. I asked Stephen about shields some time ago and was rather surprised when he told me that shields are a flat % to block instead of a modifier to a smaller percentage like critical hit.

Yeah tah is very hard to kill and hits hard himself. Even if you did get him low using those strategies I assume hes pretty good at kiting/running @ low HP too.

talk to wreker and jaysherman.. they are the only people i know who can effectivly combat a god mode mage

I kind of agree with you. It seems to me level 100 Mages are exceptionally hard to beat, since they have a Level 6 Blue Screen of Life that greatly boosts their survivability and allows them to focus less on END and more on INT: which means more damage and more mana. I'm not sure how level 100 Mages compare to level 100 Fighters, but really; I can occasionally beat a level 100 Fighter in full rainbow gear, but I've never beaten a level 100 Mage in just purple with one or two rainbows.

I love how everyone was saying at first end. mages are so hard to beat lol.. now its man god mode mages are so hard to beat, whens the next time mages are getting nerfed so I can start winning again?

I'd say a full powered Mage's weakness is his or her Mana. From what I can see, BSoL Mages with level 6 BSoL often have only a handful of HP, which can be reduced to nothing with just one or two shots of anything. If they lose their BS, they're dead.

Then again, that applies to all BSoL Mages at all levels.

"God mode mages" see thats how the nerf bat starts warming up. Just because you cant beat them. they must be unbeatable. For one thing, those guys have the highest spells and gear sets in the game, so they should be tough to anyone 90 levels lower.

They have all their points in int and the highest rated gear available to enhance their style of play and they no how to play. Good players near the level of those mages can compete with them. Good players near the mages level can beat them half the time and that seems balanced to me.

If you want to compete with them then level up that toon to get the higher rated spells, skills and gear then you'll do fine.

The point is, relatively speaking, level 100 Mages seem to be more powerful than their Fighter counterparts. Since when did I say they are overpowered and must be nerfed? I only noted an observation I picked up, which is Mages are harder to beat than Fighters at level 100.

Another likely reason is that, since you cannot see the mana pool of your opponent, and a Mage's power is based more on Mana (especially at 80% BS) than Health, one cannot tell really how close an encounter was against a level 100 Mage, so it would seem level 100 Mages win by a larger margin than level 100 Fighters.

What I observe, however, is that level 100 Fighters can be beaten, even decked out in loads of quality rainbows. A level 100 Mage, however, seem quite untouchable even with only a few quality rainbows. That could be because all level 100 Mages I've met are pros, and the fact that most Mage tactics are meant to be used against Fighters, and when opposing another Mage, it's basically a "who can kill the other faster" contest.

Rainger, i suggest ditching the Poison, and getting high Agil equipment, and stashing all the shadow/fire/ice resist gear as you can. Poison is more of a last-ditch attempt at killing an enemy as they run away.

its who can switch resists fastest, and find the others weakness. And keep switching gear against other lvl 100 mages.

I need more info on how the BSoL (Blue Screen of Life) works.
Please correct any statements that are wrong. If I've missed any important elements to BSoL, please add them.


BSoL uses the mana pool.
BSoL will terminate when the mana pool is depleted.
BSoL does not have a time elapse.


Questions-
Can someone explain how damage affects BSOL and what is mana inflation?

Stephen said-
Blue Screen of Life is more efficient now, but the increased mana costs have mages feeling the burn when taking damage. At max rank, the skill takes ~80% of damage and applies it to your mana with ~16% inflation. That's pretty efficient.

What does that mean?

Why does BSoL appear to vanish, then return? Was I close on taking out the mana pool?

Edited by Rainger (01/27/08 01:10 PM)

Thank you LR for the link and information.. Good job on the townston site, btw. Recent additions are Fabulous,

Most mage gear consists of purples, a few decent weapons and that should be clear on what spell they using. So if you can take a quick glance after the gates drop then switch your skill bar out, as all mages will go in either empty handed or try to trick you with a different weapon in hand.

A lvl 10 mage and fighter would lose to a lvl 10 ranger, so all those lvl 10 mages/fighters should call for a nerf bat on lvl 10 rangers?

Im confused, cant u just do your weapon switch exploit and win?

forgot about the exploit

LegendRunner, I think you mentioned that the duration of BSoL and its cooldown is the same, so that a Mage can cast BSoL immediately after it disappears. You also mentioned that this could be used against the Mage: to interrupt his or her BSoL during the transition vulnerability when it fades and is recast.

In truth, the cooldown of BSoL is much faster than its duration. BSoL lasts for three minutes, and it has a one minute cooldown. That means a Mage can recast BSoL even when it is still on to refresh it. The only "vulnerability" apart from the mana burn with BSoL is if you kill a Mage within one minute of him/her casting BSoL, which will result in him/her respawning without the shield to protect him/her.

EDIT: The Townston article is wrong. BSoL has a cooldown of 60 seconds, and a duration of 180 seconds.

Edited by Necrophilius (01/27/08 10:03 PM)

/smack self

The first time I use my own wiki for information.. and its wrong, changing it right away lol
Thanks for the notice.

News: I am stupid as hell, you changed it yourself, ty again



Edited by Legendrunner (01/28/08 01:33 PM)

If you really wanted to kill a mage. A fighter would be the best way to do it. A pure mage would have low def rating, but the fighter must get to the mage and the mage can't escape against divine atts, such as the slow down move or the hollering thing. The mage will flinch and you can keep atting until he dies.

Unfortunately, the original poster Rainger is a Twink, and as a Fighter will not be able to use Holy Roller.

True. While as a fighter, I may be able to smudge out 85k in health, high-level skills like Holy Roller are unavailable options.

there are plenty of ways to beat the so called god mage as im one myself..time your resists dont just put them on and charge in..especially since ur a low lvl and ur resists take longer to cool down and im coming for u when they are gone..lol...watch the mages bsol most die in a hit or 2 when it is gone...high damage helps alot wears bsol down fast make sure to slow/stun and fear cause its running time when mana is low..as for the stand in trick im always expecting it and it only brings u closer to the mage and good luck if u need to run however it does work well in a grp agaist a mage if u can get them to stay still for long enough to utilize it.u know how important good gear is i would suggest making a (mage set) with good shadow/ice/fire resists...mages need room to do well so keeping them as confined as possible helps alot and i shouldn't say this but if u kill a mage run to his base if bsol isnt recharged wipe the floor with them happens alot to me in grps i hate it but its a very good tactic..hope this helps good luck!!

nice tips on how to beat ur own class, that's what i call fair-play. From my experience, the best way to get mages is as a combination of speed (light gear, loafers to debuff ice, hare/teleport), skill (spell res, unerving, fear) and heavy damage. The latter being difficult to achieve for a ranger, my prefered anti-mage profile would be a warrior wearing a shazam like armor and using a heavy dmg 2H weap. Works pretty cool usually (i did not say always .

If someone hasn't mentioned this yet, then try wards and resistances. Helps u live a few sec longer (but it helps).

The only mages i have real problems with killing are the lvl 100 "God Mages" because as a fighter they move a lot faster than I do, and the dps for full int mages is just huge. Bsol is the biggest factor in fights with a mage, if they don't have it, they're done, not even going to do enough damage fast enough for me to have to heal.

But for the "god mages" and mages in general, just stay back try to see what they are using against you, shadow is most common, but since the patch ice is popular to, as well as more deadly. What ever they are using, put that resist maxed out in the tray, good to start with shadow if in doubt so the first cast potentially doesn't need a cooldown.

Use a freakin fast, or ludicrous speed 1 hander, and a high end or resist shield like shardian (note: this works well for rangers to as they have similar dps capabilities)

You dont need to have high def or agil to hit a mage effectively. so focus almost exclusively on end gear, for fighters lower than lvl 70, crystal(rb is sheer protection) and amethyst plate(not shankey's agaist mages) is good. The downside to this is speed, so if you find other unique armor with high end bonus use this over crystal. For a fighter over lvl 70, if you can get it, full end cinder is choice, and even more effective against fire mages. The idea of using gear like shazam is good to as it adds speed, and resists as well.

Str helps a bit for a damage bump, as this is a bonus on most gear for fighters weps like moonglaze are good here, both end and str bonus. High health gives you more time to do your stuff.

Holy Roller is a must, set on hot key so you can have it ready to go as you run up. As well as fear of gosh, set on right click is my pref because you dont have to hit the hot key and then click to use. (especially to give you some time to get away when low on hps). Unnerving shout is good, but roller takes care of speed debuff if there is no room for it. Acidic Blight is ok if there is room for it as well. Butcher is also good to have as a 3rd stunning skill, also set on hotkey. If a mage can't hit you he can't kill you. Lastly swivel arm action on hot key. Offensive skill set on the closest hot keys so you can finger them ....Pauses for pervs.... buffs on further keys, you can just click them with your cursor. Oh, and if there is room depending on you play style, chill bill is good for extra damage sponge, but will ultimately die quickly against these mages...

As for actually fighting. Activate the resist at the last possible moment, then hit swivel arm action. Holy Roller and proceed to wail on them. You should be able to get a decent ammount of damage in, and i'm fairly confidant most will be able to overcome these mages at least some of the time.

You can use fear of gosh to stop them attacking for a few seconds and should be able to get a few shots in, more if they are in a smaller space.


Rangers

Very similar, use high end gear (assuming you have stated fully to agil) and maybe a good agil ring if needed. But getting the highest end you can isn't as much of a factor because rangers are quicker, and can kite just like a mage.

In place of the skills that require melee weapons, use putrid penatration and fear shot in the same place as holer roler and fear of gosh, respectivly. TTF of coarse is a must, all the time, spirit of the hare, and this a good place to use unerving shout since neither fear shot or putrid penatration add speed debuff, but really isn't needed. Also good to use Bill here as well.

For fighting its about the same, resist, fear shot or putrid penatration or both , dealers choice. While they are stunned hit tff and kill kill kill, with putrid penatration as soon as its cooled down( if you can hit the mage, depending on what they are doing at the time)

Both effective tactics, although all you twinks are still going to be hosed most of the time, buffs and resists just aren't quite good enough at this lvl.

And imo, rangers are the best twinks, but not impossible to beat.

As a note to rangers, poison skills are really worth the skill slot. Poison shot is ok if there is room, and only good as a last shot as your opponant is running away, and only if they are close to death, as it may just finish them off as they're running, or will halt healing if its activated too soon.



I'm open to other suggestions, and constructive critisism, don't just flame me because you disagree with me, which happens all to much in this community.



As note, i used to snub off resists for the most part as they take up a skill slot, and would only use in pve when i was having a particularly hard time. But after a match against one of said "god mages" when i said, "i'll never be able to beat a good lvl 100 mage" and he suggested the resist, I immediately kicked myself, figuratively, I should have thought of that before. At times I'm absent minded, my favorite is when I forget to change my base skill bar after farming XD, which is a much different skill set. This mage beat the snot out of me, like i do to the very inexperienced and poorly geared players( and even some well geared players ) could hardly touch him, I'd die before i got close enough. I've yet to face any mages like this since then, but i have fought lvl 80+ well geared and skilled mages, and made them into mush, so i'm sure this tactic will work well against the "god mages"