I have now seen it in two-three other threads. People who dont pvp or pvp 1 time a month trying to change things to so called balance the system. It is obvious you didnt come ot this game to pvp nor will pvp is handled cause you to stay or leave. There are other people who have "maxed" out the game, love pvp, and it is the only thing keeping us around.

The point is here, if you dont pvp..lurk, pop a suggestion you think might help..but dont b itch about balancing and making major changes because, although I only speak for myself, the value of your opinion has to be somewhat related to the amount of time you spend in the system.

The people with the sig line that says..never pvp'd..never will..have no business posting here.

Flame away suckas.

Could've been done on a more nice way to improve the thoughts of other people..
Nobody ever spoke to the balance, its about the facts that are around, like.. lvl 10's cant get banner of foolish, or, we should have better prizes to stimulate the willing to PvP.

Suggestions will never be implanted as originally thought, the suggestion will go from raw to a good shape, and adjusted when needed. I do pvp more then Ripper, yet he was the one saying it and I totally agree, which means that you wont need to be full PvP hardcore to understand whats going on.

Well Jay since I am the one you are most upset with ILL make my point.......There are only a limited amount of developers in this game.why should they devote the loins share of there efforts to a part of the game that is nunder utlized, not wanted by the majority of the people that play this game. I understand the developers read these forums every day...jsut like I do..... I feel there needs to be a voice of reason even in somehting I think is a waste of time and more importantly Developers time.I dont need to stay out of anything.....not repress my opinion when I feel it is needed......

Will you please provide us the "proof" that the majority of people do not want PVP. This is where the problem in your logic comes from. You are assuming the majority of the players here share your opinion because a small sampling of that population that you have interacted with may seem to support that theory. The point of this thread is that since you are not coming into pwnston at all, and claim to be proud of it, you never have a chance to interact with the people who do like pvp. Therefore, your sampling of the population is skewed, and wholely inadequate to make the claim "the majority of players don't want pvp". Come to pwnston a couple times, make friends there too, and include those people in your sample then report those "facts" to us for added credibility.

Let's consider the problem mathematically (just for fun).

Let the Set W be those players of Dungeon Runners who Want PVP.

Let the set D be those players of Dungeon Runners who Do not want PVP.

These 2 sets are mutually disjoint, that is, they have no elements in common since you can not want and not want the same thing. Since the populations are disjoint over the entire universe (the universe in this case is all the players of dungeon runners) a representative sampling of the population must include members of both sets. A sampling of only members of one of the disjoint sets guarantees the results will be typical only to members of the set surveyed, and not the entire universe.

Here is the formal proof:

Suppose you have elements x, y members of the mutually disjoint sets A and B.

Then let x be an element of A
and let y be an element of B
Then since the sets are disjoint, there does not exist x such that x is an element of A and x is an element of B. Hence x and y are distinct objects and x never = y.
On the universe U to sample all members of all sets x must be selected from A and x must be selected from B. But since x != y the second x is denoted as y. For all x on A we have x != y so all subsets of U are not being sampled. Therefore, no generalizations may be made about the population of U since clearly there is no y sampled when such y exists. QED

Dr. Sucka

Edited by PhobicOne (11/16/07 08:01 PM)

You are right .. I made and assumption and a mis statement......And I know what that makes me ......but the point is valid......there response in numbrs is very small for the people that use the pvp world.....why should that small sampling of membbers recive a disporportonal amount of the developers time.....

I am not agianst pvp lol I jsut think that the PVE world needs more time devoted to it at THIS Juncture in the games life cycle

I think that everyone's suggestion has merit. In fact, someone who is not playing the PvP day in and out may have a fresh perspective. Whereas, someone who is entrenched in the PvP system may not see the forest for the trees, so to speak.

As developers, we look at everyone's input -- filter it based on our goals for the game and experience: then we implement the changes that we determine are necessary.

I take the experienced player's input very seriously... but that doesn't mean they're always right. Dominant strategies need to be broken. And that's done through balancing and ability introduction. Sadly, it's oftentimes the hard-core PvP player that comes to rely on dominant strategies -- and they get the most upset when they are modified.

We're on iteration #3 of the PvP balance... it's still got a lot of time to go before it's "perfected". Give us constructive feedback and we'll do our best to keep the game fair and flavored.

So, let's not poo-poo anyone's ideas because they don't have 500 wins. Discuss them on merit and it'll make for a friendlier board.

steve

It's true that the current DR population isn't big on PvP. But, our goal is to broaden the appeal of the game. There are more PvPer's out there that we'd like to reach at some point. Can't do that without PvP, now can we?

The PvP server has a daily population max of about 30. Definitely small... but I'm not giving up on it yet.

steve

HI Stephen,

I am not saying that you give up on pvp.........I gave that up long ago.... my only concern has to do with PVE and that it gets the same attention that pvp gets proportionally for the amount of players using the two different types of play

Well, to throw my thought into this one..
I think it was a good decision to put pvp in the game, as when the game grows, more people want to pvp. When we had for example 100.000 players, people would want pvp, but when there isnt pvp yet, it has to be made. Ok.. the making shouldnt be different, but debugging everything and balancing everything is much much harder with more players.

This was a step to improve the game already for when more people come. The main problem why people dont pvp is because:
1. People dont like pvp, but I cant imagine thats 95% of the players.
2. Its very annoying with the level 1's owning you, so you are thinking you did leveling for nothing and go on with pve, quit game or make a lvl 1 yourself.
3. While pve is growing by its player's levels, and gear wise, more people want to get more out of the game, for example PvP.

I think that eventually, we will be very thankfull that PvP was implanted and everything is now balanced.

I was thankful the day it was implimented..... Before that all we seemed to hear in world chat was ALL the people who wanted it and wouldnt play the game if it wasnt there...after pvp was implimented those people went away..

If you all want to beat up on each other go have fun.....it isnt for me.... I dont need that ....

Your points are good Legenrunner.although personally I find it very amusing that a level 1 can cause so much grief....I saw someone trying to get a set of level 5 purple gloves lsat night.it certainly changes things

thats those same lvl 1s that are lvl 5s trying to do the same thing.. but heck if they can get lvl 5 full set of purples then good for them.. i would still stomp a mud hole in their juggular

I see PvP as an alternative to PvE and definitely worthy of both developer attention and time. While I might never be a hard core PvPer I think it is great that DR has multiple options for players to explore and have fun with. I went to the PvP server today and got owned. There are plenty of excuses and reasons; but what would be the point? I have never really PvP'd before, but I wanted to check it DR implementation of PvP.

The PVP players were really wonderful and very friendly. They were giving helpful suggestions about builds, tactics and even gear. PvP players might be the DR minority, but you would be hard-pressed to find a finer subset of players in any online game. Considering I can respec fighter/mage/ranger or any combination thereof the PvP options are amazing. When the inclination and time permits I look forward to going back to hang hung or maybe see hung hanged?

Over time, I believe the PvP community will grow and be a very meaingful addition to this game. As more players hit 100 I can definitely see them transition primarily to PvP, but there is no reason to wait when you can go check out PvP today.

i second that tristanne i want to hang hung as well

Smaller hitboxes, faster character reaction time (180 turning), and more skills is all we need to make pvp fun in my opinion.

Great reply and insight Tristanne .

If you ever need any pvp help, send me a tell. I sure dont know everything but I will do my best to help you anyway I can.

jay, tristanne in game name is alvera and her first pvp match up she was up against bit and myself on hang.. we both tried to give her as much help as possible as its always nice to see another lvl 100 in pvp..