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Victrix
New Kid
Posts: 4		 Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP
#34357 - 09/03/07 11:46 PM

Here is my suggestion to make PvP more fun: nerf the freakin Ice Bolt speed debuff effect in PvP.

Whenever u meet a mage now in a PvP match all they do is spam Ice Bolt, run away, and then spam it some more until u die. Thx to the 40% movement and attack speed debuff the spell gives when u are hit by it.

This is completely unfair to fighter classes whos heavy armor gives them movement penalties anyway and are much slower then a robe wear mage who gets speed buffs form his gear. Now the fastest class in the game gets an attack spell that automatically decreases movement AND attack speed by 40% of the slowest class in the game. Very unbalanced.

So even if a fighter does get close enough to start swing away in slow motion all the mage has to do is run back a few paces and ice u some more, or hit u with shadow smackdown, or righteous stomp, or hell even wait for you to use a fighter skill to do THEM the favor of knocking them back.

The movement and attack speed debuff effect should be changed form 40% to something like 10% in PvP. And/or the spell should only have a certain percentage chance of having the debuffing effect when one is hit by an ice bolt, not automatically every single time.

What do u guys think? Has any fighter come up with a strategy that can beat these pansy ice mage in PvP?


Blenda
Rabbit Puncher
Posts: 81		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP
#34371 - 09/04/07 04:18 AM

I agree with this post. I have not yet come up with a way of dealing with this. Being a fighter means getting up close and when you are frozen you just can't do it.

Maybe if the effect didn't last so long. Or there was a spell to counteract it. Maybe Holy Roller could 'break' the spell.

Cause otherwise I am just gonna get myself a gun and be a ranger in a big suit of armour.

I have a feeling that eventually PvP will become mage against mage. In every other game I have played speed beats everything in PvP and in Dungeon Runners mages are the queens of speed.


bogey
Actual Hawk
Posts: 324		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #34371]
#34384 - 09/04/07 08:00 AM

I haven't did the PvP thing yet but, does the ranger speed buff help if you hit it after ther ice bolt?

May have to peek my head in and try it if noone else has.

Gary

--------------------
Bogey ~ Warmanger
Steele - Lvl 20-something Ranger

We are all one race.... Human

Come to the Darkside....we have cookies!!!! and milk:)

Demonic Crypts



DracMorair7
Chicken Hawk
Posts: 111		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP
#34388 - 09/04/07 08:19 AM

Heh, call me the pansy fighter I use it to slow your [censored] down from hitting back on me every 5 seconds and refocus on you isn't hard. Yeah, it needs to be thrown out altogether in my opinion. That or equip it to throw it right back at the mage, you do have an interchangeable slot don't you.. Geese, learn strategy.


kabs101
New Kid
Posts: 16		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP
#34390 - 09/04/07 08:30 AM

I know how you feel it is impossible to beat mages when they stack you. Ice bolt + knockback spells = very difficult.

you can use teleport if your 50+ but only once every 30 seconds. When stacked holy roller doesnt do anything you run on the spot. You can also use shadow smackdown if their not to far away.
Still it is very difficult.
+1 to your idea

--------------------
/Kabs/



Dobrique
New Kid
Posts: 2		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #34390]
#34395 - 09/04/07 09:36 AM

Any immobilizing spells in PvP are EXTREMLY useful, and I would dare say that Ice Bolt is a bit overpowered atm. Maybe they should introduce the so-called "diminishing returns" - the first icebolt slows you down fully, the second only half effect, third only 10%, and then it doesnt slow you down but only does damage... anyway that's why they introduced PvP in it's "test" phase, they are going to work on balancing things in the future... until then learn to hide behind corners


CraigH
Chicken Hawk
Posts: 167		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #34384]
#34415 - 09/04/07 02:15 PM

Quote:

I haven't did the PvP thing yet but, does the ranger speed buff help if you hit it after ther ice bolt?

May have to peek my head in and try it if noone else has.

Gary



No it doesn't help. You may get 1 hit in but the mage will just hit you with a spell, prolly ice again, and it will cancel the movement buff.

Personally I am a mage but do not use ice in pvp. I agree it needs a huge nerf. Like maybe a hit rate of 5% or lower for effect while in pvp. Prolly the best answer to ice would be for a fighter to get a bow and use fear shot and when the mage runs into a wall to switch back over to their main weapon and start smacking them. Not a good answer but only one I can think of.


Pax_Arcana
Rabbit Puncher
Posts: 71		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP
#34430 - 09/04/07 04:22 PM

Quote:

Here is my suggestion to make PvP more fun: nerf the freakin Ice Bolt speed debuff effect in PvP.

Whenever u meet a mage now in a PvP match all they do is spam Ice Bolt, run away, and then spam it some more until u die. Thx to the 40% movement and attack speed debuff the spell gives when u are hit by it.


.... for such purposes were spells like FROST RESISTANCE made. It gives something like +60 resistance per level; as soon as the match starts against a mage, pop that resistance skill, and then wade forward through their now-ineffective Ice Bolts, laughing as you swing your weapon(s) in a menacing way.


_Pax_
Chicken Hawk		  
vB post - 09/04/07 04:22 PM

Quote:
Here is my suggestion to make PvP more fun: nerf the freakin Ice Bolt speed debuff effect in PvP.

Whenever u meet a mage now in a PvP match all they do is spam Ice Bolt, run away, and then spam it some more until u die. Thx to the 40% movement and attack speed debuff the spell gives when u are hit by it.
.... for such purposes were spells like FROST RESISTANCE made. It gives something like +60 resistance per level; as soon as the match starts against a mage, pop that resistance skill, and then wade forward through their now-ineffective Ice Bolts, laughing as you swing your weapon(s) in a menacing way.


CraigH
Chicken Hawk
Posts: 167		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #34430]
#34434 - 09/04/07 04:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Here is my suggestion to make PvP more fun: nerf the freakin Ice Bolt speed debuff effect in PvP.

Whenever u meet a mage now in a PvP match all they do is spam Ice Bolt, run away, and then spam it some more until u die. Thx to the 40% movement and attack speed debuff the spell gives when u are hit by it.


.... for such purposes were spells like FROST RESISTANCE made. It gives something like +60 resistance per level; as soon as the match starts against a mage, pop that resistance skill, and then wade forward through their now-ineffective Ice Bolts, laughing as you swing your weapon(s) in a menacing way.



Yeah uh, while you will resist some of the ice bolts the mage will still get enough off to slow you pretty much the whole fight. At 363 ice resist a level 50 mage was able to land ice on me maybe 19 out of 20 hits. I actually don't remember resisting one hit at all.


Victrix
New Kid
Posts: 4		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #34430]
#34473 - 09/04/07 10:37 PM

*post removed*

Edited by Crickette (09/07/07 04:36 PM)


DracMorair7
Chicken Hawk
Posts: 111		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #34473]
#34485 - 09/05/07 12:58 AM

*post removed*

Edited by Crickette (09/07/07 04:37 PM)


Pax_Arcana
Rabbit Puncher
Posts: 71		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #34434]
#34492 - 09/05/07 03:17 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Here is my suggestion to make PvP more fun: nerf the freakin Ice Bolt speed debuff effect in PvP.

Whenever u meet a mage now in a PvP match all they do is spam Ice Bolt, run away, and then spam it some more until u die. Thx to the 40% movement and attack speed debuff the spell gives when u are hit by it.


.... for such purposes were spells like FROST RESISTANCE made. It gives something like +60 resistance per level; as soon as the match starts against a mage, pop that resistance skill, and then wade forward through their now-ineffective Ice Bolts, laughing as you swing your weapon(s) in a menacing way.



Yeah uh, while you will resist some of the ice bolts the mage will still get enough off to slow you pretty much the whole fight. At 363 ice resist a level 50 mage was able to land ice on me maybe 19 out of 20 hits. I actually don't remember resisting one hit at all.


... 363?

Look at my sig (whcih I'll update in a moment). Wth 5/20 ranks, at level 25, I get +325 reistance. By level 50, I expect to have ... well, gee, 10/20 ranks. I believe the actual formula is "25, plus 60 times skill level", so that'll be +625 resistance.

Before gear. Before Passives.

I won't claim to know for certian that it's a sure-fire "I win" button, but it's certainly at least going to cut down on their ability to HURT you with that Ice bolt, now isn't it?

... and meanwhile, what're the odds they have the Resistance themselves? Toss a few ice-bolts of your own, and maybe you can catch up to them, and introduce them to your good friend, Mister Gigantic Hammer. ^_^

EDIT: Okay, I didn't know that resistances were cut in PvP. That, I dislike; if you invest the skill-bar spots in a Resistance skill, it should have it's full effect (consider that there are FIVE resistances, three of which apply to the default Mage skills; if you want to cover your bases against all of them, that's a big chunk of your bar used up for defense against spells).

Edited by Pax_Arcana (09/05/07 03:20 AM)


_Pax_
Chicken Hawk		  
vB post - 09/05/07 03:17 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Here is my suggestion to make PvP more fun: nerf the freakin Ice Bolt speed debuff effect in PvP.

Whenever u meet a mage now in a PvP match all they do is spam Ice Bolt, run away, and then spam it some more until u die. Thx to the 40% movement and attack speed debuff the spell gives when u are hit by it.
.... for such purposes were spells like FROST RESISTANCE made. It gives something like +60 resistance per level; as soon as the match starts against a mage, pop that resistance skill, and then wade forward through their now-ineffective Ice Bolts, laughing as you swing your weapon(s) in a menacing way.
Yeah uh, while you will resist some of the ice bolts the mage will still get enough off to slow you pretty much the whole fight. At 363 ice resist a level 50 mage was able to land ice on me maybe 19 out of 20 hits. I actually don't remember resisting one hit at all.
... 363?

Look at my sig (whcih I'll update in a moment). Wth 5/20 ranks, at level 25, I get +325 reistance. By level 50, I expect to have ... well, gee, 10/20 ranks. I believe the actual formula is "25, plus 60 times skill level", so that'll be +625 resistance.

Before gear. Before Passives.

I won't claim to know for certian that it's a sure-fire "I win" button, but it's certainly at least going to cut down on their ability to HURT you with that Ice bolt, now isn't it?

... and meanwhile, what're the odds they have the Resistance themselves? Toss a few ice-bolts of your own, and maybe you can catch up to them, and introduce them to your good friend, Mister Gigantic Hammer. ^_^

EDIT: Okay, I didn't know that resistances were cut in PvP. That, I dislike; if you invest the skill-bar spots in a Resistance skill, it should have it's full effect (consider that there are FIVE resistances, three of which apply to the default Mage skills; if you want to cover your bases against all of them, that's a big chunk of your bar used up for defense against spells).


Sinner666
New Kid
Posts: 10		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #34492]
#34608 - 09/06/07 12:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Here is my suggestion to make PvP more fun: nerf the freakin Ice Bolt speed debuff effect in PvP.

Whenever u meet a mage now in a PvP match all they do is spam Ice Bolt, run away, and then spam it some more until u die. Thx to the 40% movement and attack speed debuff the spell gives when u are hit by it.


.... for such purposes were spells like FROST RESISTANCE made. It gives something like +60 resistance per level; as soon as the match starts against a mage, pop that resistance skill, and then wade forward through their now-ineffective Ice Bolts, laughing as you swing your weapon(s) in a menacing way.



Yeah uh, while you will resist some of the ice bolts the mage will still get enough off to slow you pretty much the whole fight. At 363 ice resist a level 50 mage was able to land ice on me maybe 19 out of 20 hits. I actually don't remember resisting one hit at all.


... 363?

Look at my sig (whcih I'll update in a moment). Wth 5/20 ranks, at level 25, I get +325 reistance. By level 50, I expect to have ... well, gee, 10/20 ranks. I believe the actual formula is "25, plus 60 times skill level", so that'll be +625 resistance.

Before gear. Before Passives.

I won't claim to know for certian that it's a sure-fire "I win" button, but it's certainly at least going to cut down on their ability to HURT you with that Ice bolt, now isn't it?

... and meanwhile, what're the odds they have the Resistance themselves? Toss a few ice-bolts of your own, and maybe you can catch up to them, and introduce them to your good friend, Mister Gigantic Hammer. ^_^

EDIT: Okay, I didn't know that resistances were cut in PvP. That, I dislike; if you invest the skill-bar spots in a Resistance skill, it should have it's full effect (consider that there are FIVE resistances, three of which apply to the default Mage skills; if you want to cover your bases against all of them, that's a big chunk of your bar used up for defense against spells).



If you use way of the roo, gym freak, and bmi, passives then there really is no space to keep the resists in your bar along with w/e other offensive skills you might use.


Pewpu
Rabbit Puncher
Posts: 92		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #34608]
#34611 - 09/06/07 12:55 PM

i am a mage, i used to use icebolt as my main attack...and found that in pvp the dmg is lackluster and only effective against fighters, if using the attack, run, attack,attack,run...etc sequence, which kills them in less time then it takes me to kill them as shadow

also it seemed that rangers and other mages killed me much easier as ice then they do now as i am now shadow.

i think the problem here is you got out "rock-paper-scissored"...in other words the person either planned on faceing a fighter and got lucky or switched in ice spells when he saw you, also if ur chasing a mage and are taking alotof dmg, and they are running...stop chasing them! go regen then try and catch em comming around a corner or something.

i have had fighters catch me in a corner or comming around 1 and simply "stun lock" me to the point were i have 2 options
1) try and run with the end result being i die
2) attack them back til 1 of us dies, 50/50

i have had fighters effectivly switch to a gun and kill me

i think that this game allows for such a wide array of adaptability that there is no reason to complain about class mechanics...simply adapt, switch skills and/or items and experiment

of course i am not a fighter and do not know, as my experience with all other rpg's are that ranged dps typiclly > melee...however i see in place(in DR) the tools to allow all characters to have a fair fight


DD2146
New Kid
Posts: 20		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #34611]
#34622 - 09/06/07 03:29 PM

Like I say:

Ludicrous duel wield
1h Swivel
Endu/Agi/Str balance
DR/Attack/Movement Speed Debuffs

and use Corners


Butcher or Cleave
Acidic Blight
Unnerving Shout
Good Passives
a Resist buff or two
Ice Bolt secondary
Fear Banner

Health Steal if you can get it.

Bring a mage friend.

Think about the situation.

They found what works for them but to me...

at the end of the day he's just a cloth wearing paper thin mage.

--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of what was said in this post can truly be stated as fact. It is merely the observations of myself and hold no merit beyond what I think. Furthermore all statements in this post are meant to be informative but not to a point of instruction only as a tool for discussion.


Edited by DD2146 (09/06/07 03:30 PM)


Pax_Arcana
Rabbit Puncher
Posts: 71		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #34608]
#34687 - 09/07/07 03:45 AM

Quote:

If you use way of the roo, gym freak, and bmi, passives then there really is no space to keep the resists in your bar along with w/e other offensive skills you might use.


For me, I suspect my dual hammers might do the trick just dandily. ^_^ Skills, schmills! JUST HIT 'EM HARDER, hehehe.


_Pax_
Chicken Hawk		  
vB post - 09/07/07 03:45 AM

Quote:
If you use way of the roo, gym freak, and bmi, passives then there really is no space to keep the resists in your bar along with w/e other offensive skills you might use.
For me, I suspect my dual hammers might do the trick just dandily. ^_^ Skills, schmills! JUST HIT 'EM HARDER, hehehe. :D


Blenda
Rabbit Puncher
Posts: 81		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #34687]
#34742 - 09/07/07 11:26 AM

Quote:

For me, I suspect my dual hammers might do the trick just dandily. ^_^ Skills, schmills! JUST HIT 'EM HARDER, hehehe.


I'm thinking that too. Corners and lots of big whacks.

This is why PvP >> PvE. The pansy mages think they have found the way to farm us fighters. But we will adapt and for a while we will be on top.


DD2146
New Kid
Posts: 20		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #34742]
#34752 - 09/07/07 12:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

For me, I suspect my dual hammers might do the trick just dandily. ^_^ Skills, schmills! JUST HIT 'EM HARDER, hehehe.


I'm thinking that too. Corners and lots of big whacks.

This is why PvP >> PvE. The pansy mages think they have found the way to farm us fighters. But we will adapt and for a while we will be on top.



Trickster mages think they're too CL for school.

Well I've got news for them.........They aren't........

Yeah, Super fast hammers even. It'll go like this:


Mage: Hahaha a Fighter type
Fighter: (Mock Sarcasm) Oh no a scary mage everyone run....ahhhhhhh
Mage: We got em now boys
Fighter: You wish
Mage: Ummm crap

Wack, Pow, Boom, Zap.........

Mage: Awww, what happened
Fighter: Owned

--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of what was said in this post can truly be stated as fact. It is merely the observations of myself and hold no merit beyond what I think. Furthermore all statements in this post are meant to be informative but not to a point of instruction only as a tool for discussion.



Pax_Arcana
Rabbit Puncher
Posts: 71		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #34742]
#34816 - 09/07/07 08:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

For me, I suspect my dual hammers might do the trick just dandily. ^_^ Skills, schmills! JUST HIT 'EM HARDER, hehehe.


I'm thinking that too. Corners and lots of big whacks.

This is why PvP >> PvE. The pansy mages think they have found the way to farm us fighters. But we will adapt and for a while we will be on top.


Not exactly what I meant, but, it'll do.

Mainly, I meant that a Warrior can still do decent damage just with gear,no skills involved. If you have only two offensive skills, on your L-mouse and R-mouse slots? The rest are defensive and/or autopowers? Well, if they're hte RIGHT defensive and Auto powers ... the phrase "c'mere, Wizzie-boy, I wanna introduce you to Mister Hammer and his twin brother" comes to mind.


_Pax_
Chicken Hawk		  
vB post - 09/07/07 08:10 PM

Quote:
Quote:
For me, I suspect my dual hammers might do the trick just dandily. ^_^ Skills, schmills! JUST HIT 'EM HARDER, hehehe. :D
I'm thinking that too. Corners and lots of big whacks.

This is why PvP >> PvE. The pansy mages think they have found the way to farm us fighters. But we will adapt and for a while we will be on top.
Not exactly what I meant, but, it'll do.

Mainly, I meant that a Warrior can still do decent damage just with gear,no skills involved. If you have only two offensive skills, on your L-mouse and R-mouse slots? The rest are defensive and/or autopowers? Well, if they're hte RIGHT defensive and Auto powers ... the phrase "c'mere, Wizzie-boy, I wanna introduce you to Mister Hammer and his twin brother" comes to mind. :D


CraigH
Chicken Hawk
Posts: 167		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #34816]
#35227 - 09/10/07 03:34 PM

I've had people hide behind corners a lot during pvp as a mage, when I see them I counter it by sending shadowbolts around the corner at them. I haven't pvped in a wile so I do not know how fighting has evolved lately. But don't assume corners will save you though they can give you an advantage on getting the stunlock going.


DD2146
New Kid
Posts: 20		 Re: Fighters, Ice Bolt, Pansy Mages, and PvP [Re: #35227]
#35229 - 09/10/07 03:48 PM

I'm fairly sure nobody assumes one thing will save them from whatever an opponent wants to throw at them.

Its just another tool.

Just remember that as soon as you get close enough to launch shadow bolts around the corner. I know that I can then come out rushing with Holy roller. After which will follow ice bolt, acidic blight, unnerving shout and about as many hits with my duel weapons as I can fit in.

If it works then yay. If it doesn't then all well. Guess I'll just have to try again.

We are only trying to figure out how to get around the problems that are being presented. We (or at least myself) dont assume that we are going to be able to find one or two things that will make us invincible.

--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of what was said in this post can truly be stated as fact. It is merely the observations of myself and hold no merit beyond what I think. Furthermore all statements in this post are meant to be informative but not to a point of instruction only as a tool for discussion.



 
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