i am glad they took aoe out of game to behonest.. but lets all face it there wont be many PURE INT mages for a few reasons... a pure int mage should be the best damage class in game period and at the same time the weakest.. Well we sure are the weakest and we are worst damage.. Even with self buffs like pyro, chilling, improved lightning, toxic we still are the worst dps class.. Now that aoe is gone there should be something done to help the Pure Int Mages out. If the devs dont believe me then take a lvl 50 or 75 guy spec him for a warrior, run any dungeon of your choice.. Then spec for a ranger do the same dungeon.. Then spec for a mage and you will see first hand how unbalanced it is.. well enough of my hungover babling in the morning

Don't forget the new "Blue Screen of Life" skill. That basically turns your mage into a tank. Damage that mana instead of your health.

steve

yeah i tried that in pvp and yes that does make a huge difference but still doesnt help in the fact of dealing damage which a mage is best known as

I play a ranger but my friend plays a mage....we run rotgut and demonic crypts all the time...even Hdol.....and even though I'm almost 5 lvls higher than he is he still kills things just as fast as I do....and he can lvl faster than I can in demonic crypts....only reason I'm higher lvl is that I don't sleep ....ever....not till lvl 100...hehe but mages do massive amounts of damage and even though I don't think I'd build one pure int....I'm definately ready for the new patch so I can roll a mage....they are awsome...perhaps it doesn't suit your fighting style....but mages can also wear tank armor with huge defense and monsterous end....making it easier to put all your points into int....mages are badazz...and I don't think that all this complaining about them is fair to the mages out there that really love and play their toons the way they know they should be played....instead of saying...we have good damage but no life....it's a bit of a balance...and that is how it should be....go pick up some tank armor and see how you like your mage then

As far as what i've read about the new changes, they're not "taking aoe out of the game". They are limiting the number of enemies you can use it on. These attacks will still be as effective as they've always been, just on an encounter-by-encounter basis. You might not be able to farm demonic crypts in 90 seconds with 2 clicks of gas blast, but you will still do the same damage you've always done. And like Stephen said, the Blue Screen skill will help, and that alone will result in more full int mages. AOE attacks like shadow lightning, gas blast, ring of fire are really for fodder and normal mobs; attacks like the Bolts are still useful and can do nice damage with the right bonuses/skills set up for heros/champions/bosses. If you look at the types of damage a Mage can do, the damage you do really depends on your gear. Shadow, Fire, Ice, Poison; You can use everything and be an efficient AOE mage, or pick one, gear up for it, and be a one-target-at-a-time mage. It's up to you. Mages might not have as much DPS for fighting bosses as the other clases, but I don't think mages were really made for single-target encounters. *shrug*

-Goya

screw the crypt to be honest.. i am talking about in general.. i am glad they taking nerfing aoe like i previously stated... however a mage/wizzy should be the biggest damage dealers and die the quickest.. we sure do die the quickest but no where near the dmg we all should be at... Goya you are 100 tell what class you are now?? and after 2 days of world chat we all know how you got there... so you changed out from a mage like 95% of others.. that is what i am saying as i wish to be a mage for life for things have to change is what i am saying... once again limit the aoe to a few mobs like a bundle that you will get in any dungeon and i am fine with that.. but our single target spells are not nearly 1/2 of those of a ranger with all there attack speed buffs and bows with speed... You get my drift now, if not you should start back at lvl 1 and lvl a mage the right way.. I like you goya and this not meant to be a flame but play a mage the right and see what i saying is all..

I disagree with the poster of this thread... I have been a mage for almost the whole ride to level 90. I dont farm the crypts.I find that totaly boring......I have cleared every dungeon solo and killed every Boss solo as well including those in HDOL.. we have the same ability as mages to do damage as any of the other class's........we just dont do it as quickly maybe...I may never do the S Queen in 13 seconds but I get there... My armor is mage armor and my stats are almost full INT with a bit of endurance thrwon in..........It involves how you like to play in this game.not what you play that makes the difference.

take aoe out of this topic all together... mages cant solo nearly 1/2 as well as the other 2 classes without some kind of hybrid mix.. yes we are fast and can kite a bit but that still takes space to do so and there is no space to do that once you log into a dungeon.. The mana shield is a good step in the right direction but it doesnt fully help the need for us mages.. Here is an example i respeced once just to see as a ranger.. and i was in the crypt as that is the easiest to test.. as a ranger with agi and about 100 intell i was doing about 475 damage to all mobs as a mostly pure mage with 675 intell i was doing 700 dmg.. yes that might sound good as its almost double but we talking about the crypt here.. resists are low, hps are low, regen is low... scale intelligence to par with hdol mobs is what i saying as far as damage.. And yes as a pure mage i solo hdol lvl 3 a few times but i burn through pots left and right on solo and have to use tricks to beat that stage.. we dont have the dps to take on 2 boss mobs at the same time with the insane regen they have... Goya since you are so against it go back to being a full mage and try what you are doing now then come and rebuttal what i am saying is all i ask..

after reading through all the posts again maybe my point isnt that clear.. take the 3 classes with no hybrids.. tanks best at tanking, rangers best on one vs one mobs, mages best against a group of mobs.. kk now the 2 classes i said can solo and solo very well.. the last class i mentioned can solo but not well.. here are a few things that could help us if you have say over 500 intelligence you get an extra hotkey as for a mage you need alot of passives and self buffs to keep going solo... crap monster bait which isnt even our buff sort to speak takes up 2 so we can just solo.. you had in bookwurm, mental, well there is basically 1/2 your hotkey bar without the mouse clicks.. so as a pure mage who needs to spend 1/4 of his hotkey bar for monster bait just so he isnt one should be addressed..

I'm not sure what attacking me or putting words in my mouth will get you; I'm simply saying that I think mages weren't made to handle single targets alone as good as a ranger or fighter. I'm not against any class or build or setup. I think each class has its advantages and disadvantages. For the mage, I think it's disadvantage is exactly what we're talking about. Not being able to solo bosses as fast or efficient as rangers/fighters. If every class could do everything in the game fast and efficiently, there wouldn't be much fun in choosing a class. If anything, they're helping the mages become more boss-friendly in this build.

1. The mana shield which transfers some taken damage to mana instead of health: This helps the mages take more hits than before, by transfering some of the damage to your mana pool. How is this not very helpful when dealing with bosses?

2. I also read that the bolt spells were sped up a bit. This also helps with fighting bosses, as bolt spells usually attack 1 target at a time. Again, very helpful for boss running.

After saying all this, if you still feel that it's worth complaining about mages not being as "high damage" as the other classes, then switch classes. If you don't like being a mage, click the ReSpec button. Most people that are mages like being a mage, and don't bother to whine profusely that they don't do as much damage per second as the other classes.

I kind of aoe different then anyone else. I do run around like a chicken with its head cut off. I spam only shadow lightning and the occasional gaseous cloud and when the mobs get down to few enough I just use shadow bolt. Over all it seems to work quite well for me. My stats and gear have been carefully selected to be able to survive groups of 3 in almost any dungeon and groups of 5 in demonic without having to pop a potion.
I was aoeing in rasputins as I went through the dungeon doing quests yesterday for about an hour and got about 10k xp. A lot poorer then what I get in demonic currently but it was a fun change of pace.

Edit: I should note that I flop like a bag of potatoes when put up against any boss though.

Edited by CraigH (09/01/07 03:58 PM)

well accordin to the wifey I have more hair on my back the a mountain ape...so does that mean I qualify????

Any way I haven't noticed a decline on my damage output with the new build. Respec'd back to mage a few days ago to run the new dungeon and see what I could do. Same set up from Demonic and basically the same scenerio... pull 3-5 mobs into a room and wax throughly :>
I did test exactly how far I could push this and came up with 8 mobs being just to much for what I had to work with to handle. Course I was using a complete set of KC vendor gear. Will eventually collect a descent set of mage stuff and try it again.

Gary

I am a level 30 mage and was trying to kill Vergrim on Normal difficulty. I spent like 50000 to the potions but I couldn't kill him. Now, how can you say it is fair when warriors can solo him on Insane?

Vergrim is a harder boss to fight because of his exploding buddies. Even a warrior who has no staregy will loose to him I know because I was one lol. It

well pretty much mages are like the worst class to farm bosses with other then one boss.. my grimp was a pure mage dps against the other classes.. Oh and as far as bosses go, good luck farming them as a mage as i wont say you cant do it but you die a few times, use a few potions before you get the right skills on the hotkey and play to your style..

Dunno lol some people like to kite him and try and avoid his buddies that way. I just use the spamalot tactic.