I recently swapped out weapons and went from an attack rating of 1400 to around 700 (at lvl 51). The old weapon had high pluses to agility and attack rating. The new weapon gave me a higher dmg range and a higher crit chance. Bottom line, I was able to solo in the HDoL before, and I can solo there still. You would think that a 50% reduction to your attack rating would have a noticable impact on your effectiveness. But I havnt felt the least bit gimped by it. Now I'm regretting every attribute point I ever put into agility. If you're a fighter, I would suggest only putting attribute points into str and end. Use equipment to get your agility up if you feel you need to. At least then you can change it later.

The only reason I'm atm putting points to Agility is to increase my chance to hit with melee weapons. Can't say that I've noticed much difference though.

I notice missing a whole lot without enough agility especially on the 2H weapons. I like to keep my stats in a 2:1:1:0.5 ratio.

Ya but if ur an 2h axe person and have Str End axe then all u need to work on is agility until agility gets a lil close to Str and End

Well it may make some kind of difference at lower lvls, but I'm telling ya truthfully that the miss rate after lower attack rating by 50% (thats by half) didnt make any difference whatsoever at lvl 50. Thats vs fodder and bosses in the HDoL. Wouldnt you rather have those attribute points in str or end where they actually matter?

I tried switching to a +50 agi sword at level 26 and it made a big difference in my hit rate (AR went up to 838), but I guess rating starts to matter a lot less by level 50. I hope we get a respec sometime soon, because I made the mistake of taking some points in agility that I'd prefer elsewhere.

I swapped out a +35 agi ring with a +end ring (at lvl 41) and notices a lot more misses. With it, I had ~700 attack rating, without it, only 300ish. So it makes a difference up to a point.

It seems like there's a cut off point somewhere between 700-900 where your hit rate hits a peak and adding anything more to it does little to improve your effectiveness. Someone at a higher level should probably confirm that first, but at the moment don't bother going over ~800.

Hmmm I seem to notice a difference in the quantity of misses when my attack rating drops considerably. Does it make a huge difference? Not really. But I still dislike it when my slooooow swings with a 2h'er are *miss*miss*miss*miss* all the while that darn runner is getting closer to aggro another pack.

The conjecture I had heard (but cannot verify) is a base/low agi will still get you a 50% hit rate.I still prefer to spend the points in agi to maintain a 90%+ hit rate, personal preference though. To me, all those points in str are meaningless if you can't hit the mob, endurance only lets you take the hits for longer until you do connect. Once the classless system goes in, it'll be a lot easier to quantify the effects of stats if you can reallocate points at will.

I should clarify my comments. I did not mean to imply that my hit rate did not decrease along with my atk rating, it did. What i found however, was that it was better to do big bursts of dmg as opposed to little rapid amounts. Even with the increased misses, I found I was able to clear out monsters more quickly overall.

This also takes care of the slowing effect caused by being surrounded and the annoyance of runners. Especially in the HDoL where the regen rate is much higher. Using a big slow heavy hitting 2h hammer, I'm able to take out a running ranged boss even while being swarmed and even while other monsters are healing it. I'm also able to take out shamen and medics in one hit, which is nice.

So having said that, my point is your attribute points are better spent in Str and End which have a direct impact on your survivability and ability to take down bosses, as opposed to agi, which is just matter of convenience and not worth sacrificing other stats to get, imo.

It depends on your strat, though. With a 2h that makes sense, but what about me? I'm dual-wielding, both either freakin' fast or ludicrous. I'm starting to think putting some extra poings into agi might be worth it, because missing is frustrating when you're chasing down a ranged mob.

If I were to try to make a dual wielder, I would want %health steal on both weapons, and I would want a higher atk rating. But all this does is decrease your need for health potions. To me, hitting the space bar isnt all that big of a deal. If there was some sort of skill that added elemental dmg to each weapon attack, then I could see the effectivness of a dual wield/high atk rating build. But as it is now, it seems dual wielders are in it for form over function. Also true for 2h sword/spear users. There is no better weapon than a 2h warhammer, your min dmg is higher so you can 1 hit casters, it makes your butcher and cleave skills useful, and it results in higher crits.

The way I see it, there is an optimal fighter build, 3 str 2 end, 2h warhammer, str/end/crit armor. 1% mana steal. All else is fluff imo.

I always used a 2h before dual wield was fixed, and my goal was to try and make my dw build as effective as 2h was. I've come pretty close, but I'll admit that I'm not sure I completely succeeded. But to me, optimizing my dw build - or at least attemping to - against the odds is part of what makes the game fun, along with seeing large numbers above monsters' heads. I do think I've come pretty close to my success with the 2h, though I'll admit that my cleaves are now far less effective.

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I should clarify my comments. I did not mean to imply that my hit rate did not decrease along with my atk rating, it did. What i found however, was that it was better to do big bursts of dmg as opposed to little rapid amounts. Even with the increased misses, I found I was able to clear out monsters more quickly overall.

This also takes care of the slowing effect caused by being surrounded and the annoyance of runners. Especially in the HDoL where the regen rate is much higher. Using a big slow heavy hitting 2h hammer, I'm able to take out a running ranged boss even while being swarmed and even while other monsters are healing it. I'm also able to take out shamen and medics in one hit, which is nice.

So having said that, my point is your attribute points are better spent in Str and End which have a direct impact on your survivability and ability to take down bosses, as opposed to agi, which is just matter of convenience and not worth sacrificing other stats to get, imo.

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Agree on the burst damage standpoint - especially in HDoL with the super regen and abundance of healers, burst and crit are king. That burst is critical to dropping a high hp boss mob that just had a heal dropped on him. While levelling in the normal dungeons I'd have to argue the opposite - it's more efficient to have smaller faster hits - allows you to take down a greater number of mobs in a shorter span. But that's really a different issue altogether, IMO.

What it all comes down to is the numbers - numbers we don't have unfortunately. It would be nice to be able to quantify the speculation and gut feelings we are operating off of, and currently we don't have the tools to provide that information.

I still stand by the assesment that the agi points are far from worthless. End and Def only impact survivability - they have nothing to do with dealing damage which is the primary requirement for downing bosses in HDoL. You could have a defense of 10000 along with 100000 HP, but if you cannot produce more damage than the HP's provided by regen + heals that boss isn't going to die (unless perhaps it's out of boredom ;) )

End simply allows you to last longer without consuming a pot and to withstand any crits you may take - beyond a base number that allows you to survive the biggest crit you may encounter, it's simply a buffer of time to consume that potion before the next hit comes in and drops your health to zero. With potions being as cheap and as available as they are, for me, potion consumption is not an issue.

Str while increasing damage and defense, does you no good unless your hit connects. Currently with a GM speed 2 H'er at lv 63 (I'll have to get my exact stats later, if they are relevant to the argument) I hit for an average of around 4k. A single missed hit costs me 4k in damage - and even if I spent every available point I have invested in Agi in Str, it will not increase my damage by 4k on the next hit. Agi, however, does increase the number of hits thereby increasing the total amount of damage done over a given span of time, and thus is far from worthless.

Now if Agi contributes to crit rating, (I have not seen anything that would indicate that it does) it becomes even more crucial to that burst damage. As far as I know we have a flat crit percentage of 3% that is only increased by gear, but I could be incorrect - the minuteness of the numbers we would be dealing with there would require a parser to effectively determine an increase to a percentage of a percentage of 3% by investing in Agi. (I hope that makes sense :p )

READERS DIGEST CONDENSED VERSION: There is a balance that must be achieved. Damage inflicted must be greater than regen + heals on any given Boss/Champion MOB in HDoL. Str alone cannot provide adequate compensation for a low hit rate, and End and Def only increase the length of time between restocking potions once a base survivability minimum has been reached. Agi however, will directly influence DPS and will lower the time involved in killing said MOBs, and thus increase overall effenciency.

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If I were to try to make a dual wielder, I would want %health steal on both weapons, and I would want a higher atk rating. But all this does is decrease your need for health potions. To me, hitting the space bar isnt all that big of a deal. If there was some sort of skill that added elemental dmg to each weapon attack, then I could see the effectivness of a dual wield/high atk rating build. But as it is now, it seems dual wielders are in it for form over function. Also true for 2h sword/spear users. There is no better weapon than a 2h warhammer, your min dmg is higher so you can 1 hit casters, it makes your butcher and cleave skills useful, and it results in higher crits.

The way I see it, there is an optimal fighter build, 3 str 2 end, 2h warhammer, str/end/crit armor. 1% mana steal. All else is fluff imo.

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If I were to make a dual wielder, I would prefer at least a base 100% crit (for dps increase) and 3% mana steal (to keep soul leech, butcher and gaseous cloud powered up) out of any gear worn. Enough Agi to achieve 90-95% hit rating, with an adequate amount of End for survivability and the rest to Str for damage and increased Def.

The optimal fighter build for me would probably be 2 Str 1 Agi 1 End per level (leftover point can placed for preference), with Crit/Str/Agi/Increased attack speed armor (in that order for importance), min. 1% mana steal. Either a GM speed Hammer or a Fast Pole/Spear depending on my mood.

Obviously, you need a setup that will enable you to win the hardest fight you're likely to encounter. For me, the hardest fight is Korug and his buddies (2nd lvl of stage 3 gaurding the stage 4 portal), where one of the optional side bosses is a healer with mystics and a nearby boss pack that joins in the fight. I can usually prevent a nearby boss pack from joining in, but like to be able to handle it if it does happen.

My current setup (lvl 58) has about 9k hps and I consider this to be about as low I as I want to go for this fight. My dmg range is around 2k-5k, atk rating is 800, def is 2500. I also regularly use Acidic blast and 2h weapon speed buff. I've tried using a wicked barb (2h slasher that doubles my atk rating and almost halves my dmg), and this fight just isnt doable with that weapon.

I've been running this fight over and over due to the garunteed 6 purple drops. Is there a similar encounter at the end of stage 6? Are there more purple drops as a result of that fight?

As a side note, if you want to farm purples, this is a great place to do it. Simply kill everything except one side boss, loot the purples, tp back to town. When you return the whole pack has respawned.

By the time you hit level 70+ you'll be cursing if you didn't put points into agility.. I'm sitting at almost 2000 attack rating and I still miss 1 in 8 or so.. cut that by half on an experimental basis, and it's nearly impossible to hit certain monsters. Now remember, monsters have their own defense rating too.. the more they have the harder they are to hit.. not a good thing if you have low agi..

Buuuttt... convincing someone over the forums isn't possible really.. you'll see what happens as you start to jump in levels.. 53 is a good one as the monsters take a good stat increase at that point

lvl 61, atk rating 900. I prolly miss 1/3 of the time. I use acidic blast to speed things up but HDoL is doable even without it.

level 47fighter so far...

12k hp
3k def
900AR
not sure on dmg... just switched weapons before the patch.

I rarely die or miss attacks... and lately i've been going str/agil 2
end 1

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lvl 61, atk rating 900. I prolly miss 1/3 of the time. I use acidic blast to speed things up but HDoL is doable even without it.

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Lv 69 AR is around 1400 or so depending on weapon - Miss rate is around 1 in 10 hits - Acid blast does not decrease the miss rate so I am assuming I am at near cap for my level. Personally I couldn't stand a 1 in 3 miss rate :)

As one of the posters stated above, the defense of the mobs is constantly increasing as the levels go up, and for me, this requires either +AR gear or investment in Agi to satisfy my gaming style. YMMV :cool: