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Ripper_McGee
Veternarian
Posts: 1,483
Mage woes...
#14535 - 02/07/07 10:58 AM

At low levels, especially, mages die a lot. Part of this is due to their inability to reach the maximum damage appropriate for their level due to high cost of skills. On two separate characters, I wasn't able to purchase my level 8 upgrades until many levels later I was essentially crippled damage-wise, even with maxed INT points and INT Gear.

Magic damage is based upon a combination of your INT score and your skill level. Fighters and rangers are able to obtain damage through STR and AGI, respectively, combined with weapon damage. As such, it much easier for Fighters and Rangers to achieve much higher damage scores at a much lower level.

My suggestion is to lower the cost of the level 8 mage spell upgrades to an amount that is more easily paid by low level players. This would go a long way to equalize damage amongst the three classes at a low level.

~Ripper


Shaun
Chicken Hawk
Posts: 199
Re: Mage woes...
#14601 - 02/07/07 11:21 PM

This is a cross-post.


biterman
Chicken Hawk
Posts: 137
Re: Mage woes... [Re: #14601]
#14622 - 02/08/07 08:41 AM

Shaun said:
Quote:

This is a cross-post.




Ok, now I'm wondering if that's just your standard reply to everything.

As to Rippers suggestion...

I agree with this and I'd like to repeat the wiped suggestion about immunities.

Given that mobs usually have resistances which improve as they level why is it necessary for mobs 5 levels or higher than a player to be auto-immune to his/her energy damage? Aren't resistances enough?

This is aggravated by the fact that it prevents mages from taking on monsters that fighters/rangers of their same level can take on.

For instance, last night I ran for a bit with Laurana whose char is level 45, I was using my alt fighter "Laurana" (yeah, I know, lil mess up there) who was level 14 at the time. While the level 45 mobs were immune to the energy part damage of my attacks I was still able to affect them (I even killed a couple! ) with the edge of muh big sword and skills like Butcher and Fear of Gosh. Whereas had I been using my main char Maedhros who is a level 28 mage I would have been even more useless. As I had previously confirmed while I ran with another player whose name I forget, he was level 50 something, mobs were utterly immune to everything I could throw at them except Butcher (again), Stomp and the slowed movement part of Ice bolt.

I find it highly unlikely that all those mobs have +1500 resistance to all energy types. So it is reasonable for me to assume that they are simply auto-immune due to level diff. And that's just not cool.

's all,
biterman.


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It is time to toss the dice and hope that chance rolls in our favor.



Hawke
New Kid
Posts: 3
Re: Mage woes... [Re: #14622]
#14627 - 02/08/07 09:42 AM

I played last night and got my mage to 5 or 6, and I really dont see a huge problem with the damage output, more of the damage soak.

I distributed my points 2-2-1 every level (Int-Con-Dex) and I may stop the Dex add and just go 3-2 or even 4-1.

The damage on the harder enemies was not hard, it was taking the beating they delivered that was rough.


Ibalaki
Actual Hawk
Posts: 239
Re: Mage woes... [Re: #14627]
#14640 - 02/08/07 12:00 PM

Int should add more damage than it is now. Mages have less HP, less armor and do less damages.

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Sorry for my English, I am French



Mama_Anarchia
Actual Hawk
Posts: 245
Re: Mage woes...
#14652 - 02/08/07 01:50 PM

Quote:

Magic damage is based upon a combination of your INT score and your skill level. Fighters and rangers are able to obtain damage through STR and AGI, respectively, combined with weapon damage. As such, it much easier for Fighters and Rangers to achieve much higher damage scores at a much lower level.




This is the main imbalnce in the game system right now and I kinda had hoped this would get taken care of before we got new monster AI or class/skill changes but hey, that's how things go sometimes. This imbalance is not jsut at low levels, it continues and as I am approaching level 60 with a mage it is the most difficult and least efficient class to play in the DR universe. A lot of this hinges on the introduction of the elemental resists and the skill level restrictions that have done their intended job of cutting back the power mages( or warlocks for the old schoolers) previoulsy held. I took a while to get used to but I'm liking playing a mage even more now than previously. Yeah I'm a masochist but using only spells really forces you to think your way through the game. I wish the loot hadn'tr gotten nerfed so bad, finding gear that buffs any of the mage skills that ALSO has good defense rating is nearly impossible and finding good weapons is very difficult too. Maybe if I felt I could efficiently farm the bosses I'd have some better luck.

Thought this may be controversial at this point I think the way to fix this is not to buff the mages again but to cut back on the loot stats for rangers and fighters and lengthen the cooldowns on skills and buffs for them as well. The other classes need to have the same soft level caps on the dungeons as the mages. This will keep toons from racing to 100 in seven weeks. Al respect to you Tachan but I think that we weren't supposed to and should not be able to exhaust the complete game content in that time frame.

In essence dont balance the mages up, ajdust everyone else down to them.



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MamaAnarchia Level 100 Genius Arch Arcane Mage

Parkaboy Level 53 Athletic Seasoned Poison Ranger

CaycePollard (50) BooneChu (8) Retired.



biterman
Chicken Hawk
Posts: 137
Re: Mage woes... [Re: #14652]
#14654 - 02/08/07 02:00 PM

Quote:


This is the main imbalnce in the game system right now and I kinda had hoped this would get taken care of before we got new monster AI or class/skill changes but hey, that's how things go sometimes. This imbalance is not jsut at low levels, it continues and as I am approaching level 60 with a mage it is the most difficult and least efficient class to play in the DR universe. A lot of this hinges on the introduction of the elemental resists and the skill level restrictions that have done their intended job of cutting back the power mages( or warlocks for the old schoolers) previoulsy held. I took a while to get used to but I'm liking playing a mage even more now than previously. Yeah I'm a masochist but using only spells really forces you to think your way through the game. I wish the loot hadn'tr gotten nerfed so bad, finding gear that buffs any of the mage skills that ALSO has good defense rating is nearly impossible and finding good weapons is very difficult too. Maybe if I felt I could efficiently farm the bosses I'd have some better luck.





Ok, I read that post thrice... and I didn't get it... call me dumb... *shrug*

Mama... huh? What's the imbalance again? Not that I'm saying there isn't one...

adios,
biterman.


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It is time to toss the dice and hope that chance rolls in our favor.



Ibalaki
Actual Hawk
Posts: 239
Re: Mage woes... [Re: #14652]
#14655 - 02/08/07 02:07 PM

+1 for mama

I have a lv59 Mage and a lv27 warrior. The game is a lot harder with a mage but it's better that way, you should nerf the warrior and the ranger.
As a mage I have a lot of problem to find stuff because I can't farm Boss alone (it's normal in my opinion). And pure mage stuff (only +int bonus) give a bad def bonus. Bi partisan stuff (Int and end) are very rare. I went pure int (stuff and stats), I have 700+ int but the difference aren't so big with an other mage. maybe you can lower spell dmg and increase the dmg bonus given by Int (+2 dmg actually I think).

So Don't increase Mage power but lower Fighter and ranger power

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Sorry for my English, I am French



GreySkye
Armchair Warrior
Posts: 38
Re: Mage woes... [Re: #14655]
#14671 - 02/08/07 03:45 PM

With the "classless" system on it's way I think the whole issue here will be moot as it will then become an issue of effective building. The challange there for the devs is going to be creating a multidue of skills/spells/abilitys for players to choose from and possibly limiting the amount that you can actually have so that people will have lots of choice and need to choose with some thought. Otherwise, if for example the amount of skills/spells remained the same as it is now, it would be a case of people being clones of each other skill wise rather than being creative with their combination and builds.

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Freedom is a light for which many have died in the darkness.



Mama_Anarchia
Actual Hawk
Posts: 245
Re: Mage woes... [Re: #14671]
#14694 - 02/08/07 06:30 PM

Quote:

With the "classless" system on it's way I think the whole issue here will be moot




And of course Grey is right. I should never post on my lunchbreak from work as it doesn't afford me enough time to post with my usual clarity.

I think what I was trying to say was the ranger and fighter classes are overpowered from the point of view of the dev/game system and for the benefit of the game as a whole should be made less powerfull and to leave the mages as they are because they are working as intended.

Classless/hybrids will probably make this discussion unnecessary though I'm sure there will be plenty of other things for us to talk about.


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MamaAnarchia Level 100 Genius Arch Arcane Mage

Parkaboy Level 53 Athletic Seasoned Poison Ranger

CaycePollard (50) BooneChu (8) Retired.


Edited by Mama_Anarchia (02/08/07 06:34 PM)


 
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